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by stoicShell 2290 days ago
OK, I get it.

I totally agree with everything you said. What you are rightfully criticizing goes under different names — "positive thought", "creative thought", "the secret". It's all the same woowoo indeed, you described it perfectly.

For some reason you haven't grasped or recognized the 'correct' mechanism or technique in that book (or I guess many others in the domain), but you got it otherwise so it's likely just a matter of cultural / personal fit — language that speaks to you. Martial arts certainly is one way, not fit for everyone either, though.

The actual 'magic' IME is the discovery of that "third-eye" skill i.e. 'controlled' introspection (to look into oneself). That's why I recommend Covey because he's got some of the best paragraphs on the topic, and this one thing is literally a game-changer for people who never explored for themselves the immensely vast space (and time) that exists, when trained, between "input" (things outside, things inside too) and "output" (a response, both external and internal). This quote: (emphasis mine)

> “Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”

It really is a superpower from a cognitive standpoint (actually trained in cognitive therapy too, immensely, but sadly for now psychology is mostly focused like medicine on curing the ill, not improving the 'normal').

The Stoics saw that space —explicitly so, all of them. In Tao too I hear, though I have yet to read the Tao Te Chin myself.

It's a skill-with-no-name (probably had/has a Greek word for it) that pervaded cultures to this day obviously. But it is the actual key to what you referred as "magically make negative beliefs positive", except it's not magic, not by a long shot: it's work, it's hard on yourself, it requires effort and time, training, lots of failure. But there's only benefits and zero side effects so...

It's a trained skill. At first, you fail miserably, like anything. After about a year, it's become second nature (still de-trainable though, one must remain self-aware on occasion). At first it's conscious effort, spent willpower, it's tiring and you want to just stop, let it go. But it gets better. Effortless eventually, like riding a bike. It's certainly closer to Zen than any form of first-degree 'blind' emotional 'management' (I mean, all therapies and such help, but they merely pave the way to a deeper understanding and meaning that only one can create for oneself).

> I really started changing when I stopped trying to change myself so much.

This, to my ears, is when you began actually doing the work for yourself, by yourself, stopped believing in some shortcut-magic trick in any one book however classic or popular. Each 'real' skill is actually just the opener to a whole other level, bigger problem space. You became the creator of your own solutions, and that, if I may, is the Graal. Like literally I think it's what a lot of 'magical' metaphors (enlightenment, elevation, etc) quite physically or biologically refer to.

There is a fuckton of self-power to be released when you get serious about that path.

I'll tell you that in my anecdotal experience, most people run the other way (back to outside gratification / validation) upon discovery that "the enemy within" generally consists of getting what feels like mentally naked (vulnerable, opened, honest-to-Self) to your deepest oldest layers, and the battle is about healing the child in you left alone for so long, and welcoming him/her back into your life, in its right place.

I profoundly think that you heed those words, wherever they come from and in whatever shape or form however imperfect and partial, when you are ready to hear them, i.e. when you need them.

It's a survival thing, I don't know of going so deep otherwise (it's not like "deep inside" has an "up" or "left"; you need a pulling force like proverbial 'gravity', gravitas, i.e. emotions that run deep, to make sense of that inner space). You eventually find your way through the maze, if it's on your path, I suppose.

But honestly, taking education seriously in that regard (I argue starting with children, as important as managing physical health; and to boot with most adults thinking of this as a health matter, like exercising or nutrition) would do a huge service to society. We can and should train people massively. IMH opinion, experience, research.

So yeah, thinking back on it, I agree self-help sucks. A century later it's nowhere near realizing the social benefits it could claim because it's been too busy giving itself a bad name.

1 comments

‘ This, to my ears, is when you began actually doing the work for yourself, by yourself, stopped believing in some shortcut-magic trick in any one book however classic or popular.’

I would say that’s a wrong reading of what I said. But take what you will. It’s simple, I actually just stopped trying so damn hard. Nothing fancy or crazy.

The way you are talking about self-change makes it sound really toiling and gruesome, almost too serious. That is not what I really mean.

Just you know, enjoying daily life having good meals and such. Not taking myself too seriously. Reading less. Just going about. Indulging in laziness and entertainment.

So I don’t believe in some other version of self-help (like you are presuming). I just do whatever I feel like and say whatever feels right. I don’t have high goals, I am just living day-to-day with some aspirations.

I presumed wrong, sorry, it seems I was guessing or rather projecting.

I think I see. You come from a different place than me, surely. Our initial make-up I mean, whether innate or acquired.

The thing is, I speak of a "struggle" to really put down the "get-X-quick" approach versus actual compounded effort (tiny bits but long term).

People want to eat some psychedelic or read magical incantations and get-woke-quick but the reality of becoming a well-rounded individual is closer to cooking a nice meal every day (you just need to find and learn recipes that work for you, I guess that's what you found eventually? This emotional clarity, alignement, simplicity even? That's super-zen, you should know!)

I was also speaking of another bigger and clearly 'darker' thing (as in "opaque", non-conscious, that can't be seen but rather felt). I hate the term but you'll read "quantum change" in the mainstream, the idea of a "core" or "essential" change of personality / behavior (same thing here). It happens to some "survivors" notably (of any kind, it's what the person experienced that matters). There's a before and an after — the meaning of life, what bothers you (or not), what (now) inspires you, etc. It's all so much clearer on the other side of pain.

This surely isn't zen and roses, although for me it took going down that dark path and back to really smell the roses (for what they are, and not what I wanted them to be). The terseness of comments and my will to pack too much probably blurred the line between these two experiences — daily routines versus one-off life-changing internal event and its aftermath.