[lm28469]

Some people getting in the workforce in the last few years have troubles making the distinction between work and play contexts. It's extremely visible on github, slack, &c. which are more and more looking like discord / reddit (gifs, memes, random jokes in the middle of serious discussions)

[allendoerfer]

Like everything else, Eternal September also got reimplemented in JavaScript.

[edoceo]

History:

Eternal September or the September that never ended is Usenet slang for a period beginning in September 1993, the month that Internet service provider America Online began offering Usenet access to its many users, overwhelming the existing culture for online forums. -- Wikipedia

[OrderlyTiamat]

The irony of this comment is palpable.

[allendoerfer]

Resistance is futile. Just give in.

[jtdev]

In my observation, this demographic is most densely concentrated in the JavaScript community. Not sure what that says about the language itself, but there’s definitely a glut of unprofessional JS devs out there.

[leetrout]

I really think it’s just because it is the most popular and accessible language to the masses we get a larger sample of the population.

[nicoburns]

I think there's also more demand for JavaScript devs than other languages, and consequently there are more junior developers writing JavaScript.

[xtracto]

Ooh back in my coding days it was PHP. And before that in my undergrad years was Vb6 ... which provided me and several other programmers with lots of frustration and consulting hours to fix the mess the owners' kid made while "programming" their new CRUD system.

There will always be a "cool new" language attracting newcomers and kids.

[matsemann]

You say it like it's a bad thing? It's possible to be both professional and have some fun (not talking about the linked GH).

[hans1729]

Having fun is not whats discouraged.

Rather: if I'm looking for the solution for some problem, I don't want to scroll through memes, because I want to be productive, getting things done. Spam/fog in the resolution-thread obviously doesn't help with that; the opposite is the case.

[mikehollinger]

Basic moderation in some form would be useful there. It’s interesting - there’s not (that I’ve seen anyway) a tremendous amount of spam or for the most part off topic conversations in in github issues. I’ve seen phishing attempts (I think) that seem to be “hey just go download and run curl ____.sh | bash” and you’ll be good to go occasionally but that sort of banter isn’t typical (at least in the circles I run in).

[easytiger]

I mean there is a difference between having fun and conducting yourself in a professional manner where appropriate.

With the increase in adoption of certain technologies (node etc) I have noticed a relationship with the people employed to work with them and their poor level of professionalism in the workplace with regard to their work and how they deal with other people (in the UK) and even how they dress. Similar age groups in other areas don't display these traits.

A number of these people work as contractors as well, so at least it was easy to get rid of them.

Go post memes on the LKML and see what happens

[Shacklz]

> [..] and even how they dress.

While there are many points in your post that I agree with, we really should stop worrying about how people dress.

If it's a developer sitting behind a computer screen all day long with zero customer contact whatsoever, he really shouldn't be forced to wear a certain dress code just to satisfy someone's standard of professionalism. Such feelings are in similar spirit as "woman should not wear trousers" a few decades ago - there is just no rationale behind it other than conditioning by society.

[scoutt]

> conditioning by society.

There is a limit. I'm sure you have one too if you really think about it. Is it tattoos all over the face? What about sandals? Or shorts? Or going bare-feet around the office.

I don't know... It's about people giving me money for work. I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday.

[ElFitz]

> I don't feel like I can go to work dressed like any given Sunday.

And why not? As you said: they are giving us money... for work. Not for playing dressing up.

If they expect otherwise, they should be clear about it up front and give a good reason to give up on that freedom while we work for them.

[scoutt]

> And why not?

To me (and of course, it's a personal opinion) it shows that someone cares. It's like when you do your resume, you want it clean and presentable, without typos, to show that you care.

We all like good user interfaces and experiences in our programs. To me, the look is like the presentation layer of our own UX. Is it required for our work? Most of the times it is not, because our work depends on the logic layers, but it doesn't hurt to have a nice presentation layer.

And I'm not telling about going to work in a D&G suit.

EDIT: and I'm not telling that I would discriminate or think right away that someone doesn't care! I don't do that. My attitude about good looking is mono-directional; from me towards others.

[wolco]

Tattoos, someone's skin color or moles on people's facing at work doesn't bother me. Someone complaining about it would.

Sandals/shorts/barefeet? It's winter here but in those brief moments of summer please do that. Wearing a three piece suit means you won't be able to work as hard during the heat wave.

[plutonicks]

Its an interesting discussion no doubt. Sometimes easier to have a "dress code/standard" in an office as it sets an (externalised) baseline.

I think the key thing is balance, not everyone is comfortable to wear a 3-piece suit but also few people are comfortable working with people who ave poor hygiene (e.g. dont shower after the lunchtime gym)

I think as long as someone is clean and presentable (context dependent) then there shouldnt be an issue.

[dwild]

> It's about people giving me money for work.

Work is the key word here. Is you work is about dressing yourself up? Then why makes it about this?

Do what you are paid for, working.

[Blaiz0r]

In addition to the first reply to your post, you may find it strange but having dress codes actually help promote diversity in workplaces.

[gruez]

How?

[Blaiz0r]

It helps focus the culture on the business over other social queues and aspects, it removes the anxiety that different social groups will have with that workplace.

https://hackernoon.com/for-inclusive-culture-maybe-less-is-m...

[matsemann]

I'm not saying I want memes everywhere, but since I'm spending 1/3 of my life at work I'd rather it be a good time.

> Go post memes on the LKML and see what happens

I think the seriousness (almost angry tone) in certain communities also is a disservice to attract new members. If I make my first PR in some project, it's easy too feel attacked when the reply is a negative one, albeit strictly professional. If it however has a more light-hearted tone and a bit more sandwiched fun-serious-fun one feels more welcome.

[seabird]

The serious tone is a huge draw to the LKML and that way of working. They really do care about not having left-pad type meltdowns. They really do care about being able to find information easily, even years after the fact.

There's a big difference between shooting the shit in your private communications and cluttering up places where people are looking for solutions.

[pdimitar]

Contrasting an opinion you don't like with the other extreme is usually called a strawman and is not a good way to argue.

As others have said, I too am not against a light-hearted tone. But when you have a legitimate problem that might be blocking you from doing your work and your only source of information is a GitHub issue then it should go without saying that the information should be dense and compressed and it should absolutely lack memes, yes.

[raxxorrax]

I work badly with people that pronounce professionalism as a form of conduct too much to be honest. That said, my professional conduct on the technical side is always to vendor that shit if the project is of a nature that allows doing so (mostly restricted to proprietary software). Even for builds. There are harsh disadvantages with doing that if maintenance is disregarded, but these are problems you can tackle yourself instead of being dependent on third party tools working.

The sheer numbers of users of NPM says that this can happen from time to time and the stability they are providing is nothing other than exceptional.

Otherwise professional conduct mainly comes down to creating an atmosphere of noncommittal distance to deal with difficult personalities. I think being subjected to it for too long should disintegrate any personality, because it is completely unnatural. Hard to imagine people longing for more of that.

[vsareto]

It should get quarantined into a different channel or server. If not, and you don't like a bunch of shitty meme spam, it's difficult to filter out while keeping your coworkers unblocked.

[scoutt]

I think it's fine to joke, but even if I try, I really have to make an effort to not get angry when someone at work or an external replies with something written like this:

"yeah, u know, i could do it better, lol".

Edit: to add that I agree with the idea there is a problem with people making a distinction between work and play contexts.

[lidHanteyk]

The problem, specifically, is that folks use humor to mask the fact that they don't know or understand what's going on.

[kingludite]

Do the jokes count towards the 10X ?

[MattRix]

This is the first time I've seen "&c" used instead of "etc", I had to look it up. Interesting abbreviation!

[Finnucane]

It’s a typographic convention that goes back to the early days of printing.

[Hamuko]

Why would anyone use "&c" considering that it doesn't actually save any key presses?

[Symbiote]

Keypresses is a pretty poor metric to base communication upon. It annoys me to see "w/" and "w/o" anywhere except Twitter. The meaning isn't clear to many non-native speakers, and it's jarring — we recognise the most common words by the shape of the whole word, so it's easier to read "with" and "without".

"&" is a ligature for the letters "et". A traditional way to handwrite it, other than as &, is a "crossed epsilon", something like Ɛ̸, which looks more like "et". There's a Unicode character closer to this form: 🙲. I have no preference between 🙲, &, etc. and et cetera — none is common enough that I would recognize it by shape while reading prose.

[MivLives]

The Unicode character you suggest is closer doesn't seem to render on my Mac. & and Ɛ̸ do though.

[Hamuko]

Keypresses is a pretty good metric when doing abbreviations.

[ilikepi]

How about as a stylistic choice? There are lots of little choices like that one makes when writing that together form a person's individual writing style.

[inopinatus]

Not sure what you mean - “et cetera” is nine keystrokes.

Nonetheless, Tiro would approve. ⁊c.

[rebane2001]

Probαbly the sαme reαson some people use αlpha instead of 'a' in their comments

[blackandblue]

i would! for the succinctness of it.

[drfuchs]

It’s very old-school; check out newspapers and books printed a century or two ago.

[twsted]

I think he means "& Co.", "and company".

[Frost1x]

You can also blame current corporate practices and culture in the development industry for encouraging this sort of behavior and tailoring environments to attract fresh grads.

It's certainly acceptable to blow off steam but there are times and places for that. The official issue thread is not one of them. It looked like a Reddit post more so than the official NPM repo. I have nothing against Reddit just pointing out it's a reasonable venue for this sort of commentary (or even HN).

The thread looked like folks celebrating like the power went out and they'll be going home from school for the day instead of "oh crap, this is my job and I have to fix this issue or my livelihood is at risk because I decided to have no backup plans in place for such a situation where NPM is down."

[avereveard]

there's also quite some personal contributors in github, for these it's not a work context to begin with

[danShumway]

Agreed. Github isn't a purely professional tool, and NPM isn't a purely professional tool, and Javascript isn't a purely professional tool.

I'm seeing comments on here that some of these people are acting like high school kids. Some of them probably are high school kids.

And that's fine. One of the biggest goals of Open Source in the first place is that software shouldn't only be developed and used by professionals. If you want that reality, you have to tolerate that unprofessional people are sometimes going to be part of the surrounding conversation for some projects.

In short, if the NPM maintainers hate this, they can modify community rules or remove spammy posts. And if they don't hate it, then I don't really get what the big deal is about allowing people to be unprofessional when talking about code -- other than maybe arguing that Github should have better filtering tools for readers.

[Sharlin]

Indeed, Github intrinsically caters for both hobbyist coders (some of whom may be quite young) and professional devs. Some degree of culture shock is inevitable.

[andreareina]

It's not about employment status. Injecting noise into a channel that is currently being used to diagnose a severe bug affecting many people disrespects the time of those working to fix the issue. Other, more appropriate venues are available for people who want to blow off some steam.

[dspillett]

Yep, noticed this on our local Teams groups too. The deluge of animations can be incredibly distracting and fill space making it more faf to go back and check details from earlier in the discussion.

</old-man-moaning>

[adonese]

In GH in particular, I’m not sure why images are allowed to be rendered in comments at all. They are almost always harmful. External links can be used instead

[tehbeard]

UX of seeing the screenshots for a bug inline outweighs it being used for the occasional meme.

And it's consistent with the rest of GH's markdown parsing for README, issues, etc.

[saagarjha]

Issue screenshots? I work on a video player and almost every issue has a screenshot in it, without which we would be very lost.

[Symbiote]

I find them very useful when working with software with images (e.g. maps), and when users supply screenshots with their issue reports.