[umvi]

On the other hand, I hate the general attitude of "don't question your doctor or do your own medical research; the doctor knows what's best"

Doctors are mortals too and can only have so much time to draw on info they crammed X years ago. Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it.

Anecdotal example - my sister had a wierd skin condition in high school. My mom researched skin images and symptoms for hours and hours and concluded it was shingles. My Mom then brought her in and discussed her findings with the GP who scoffed and said she was far too young for it to be shingles. He then admonished my mom for doing her own research. Long story short and one embarrassed GP later, it was shingles.

[Ididntdothis]

But medical advertising doesn’t inform the patient. Often it misleads. It has no value. Having medical information in public would be good so people can learn themselves but advertising provides no value.

[refurb]

FDA has done research into it and it clearly provides some value.

Other highlights of the surveys include:

Most physicians agreed that because their patient saw a DTC ad, he or she asked thoughtful questions during the visit. About the same percentage of physicians thought the ad made their patients more aware of possible treatments.

Many physicians thought that DTC ads made their patients more involved in their health care.

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-information-consumers/impact-...

[monadic2]

I would imagine you’d need to draw a correlation between advertisements and quality of care and successful treatment rate; awareness and involvement aren’t positive or negative per se.

Secondly, I see too many damn branded pens in my doctor’s office to be under the illusion that the marketing is only directed at the patients. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been prescribed medication just to have it swapped out at the pharmacy for a generic variety. Doctors are just as susceptible to advertising than the rest of us, except exclusively at harm to the patient.

The demonstrated “value” being provided seems to be mostly in the form of cash in the pockets of providers and pharmaceuticals, not in material benefit to the patients.

[mikestew]

Secondly, I see too many damn branded pens in my doctor’s office to be under the illusion that the marketing is only directed at the patients.

I can assure you that drug reps didn't bring in catered lunch to my ex-wife's GP office for the benefit of better informing patients about their choices. We got divorced 30 years ago, but I'd bet money I've still got a sticky note pad lying around the house somewhere with a pharma company's name on it.

There's plenty of drug marketing going on that will never come under the gaze of a patient.

[tialaramex]

So, the reason they've got branded pens is that the drug reps are allowed to give them pens, so they do. Trivial low value gift. Historically the doctor wouldn't remember HealthyHeart brand beta blockers because of the 40 cent pen but because they paid for his two week safari. Most of the world banned that, but not so very long ago. My nurse friend didn't spend a penny of her own money on big birthday events when she was younger, drug reps paid for everything. (In the NHS system some nurses have full prescribing powers I presume some US nurses likewise but even if not it's the same for doctors)

[aladoc99]

Drug reps in the US quit giving away pens and coffee mugs in the US in 2008, in accord with PhRMA rules (that's the drug manufacturers' association/lobby). They got to say it was improved ethics, but it was also a mutual disarmament agreement of sorts. "We'll stop giving out sticky pads if you will."

[adamsea]

If the true goal is to educate the patient, I'm 100% certain there are more effective and ethical ways to accomplish that goal other than for-profit advertising (which by definition cannot be unbiased).

[aantix]

How does it mislead?

They can be sued for making false claims. There's no value in doing so, especially in a high profile medication.

Why would you spend a couple billion dollars on research/marketing, years of research, to bring something to market only to shoot yourself in the foot by making false claims?

[amyjess]

I'm a trans woman. It's widely acknowledged in the trans community that most of us have to teach our doctors what meds to prescribe, what starting doses are common, and how to interpret lab results to determine how to titrate the dosage. Most of us have read the Encdocrine Society's clinical guidelines for HRT cover to cover, because we have to be the experts. And half the time, it turns into a fight. At one point, I had to print out relevant sections from the Endocrine Society's guidelines and use a highlighter on key parts just to demonstrate that my dose needs to be upped, to a level that's still regarded as safe, because my levels were way too low. I was so happy when I switched to a better doctor a couple of years later.

And a lot of us end up ordering our meds from gray-market online pharmacies anyway and paying for our own blood tests (usually via Private MD Labs).

[specialist]

If you can, I'd encourage you to find the care providers you need.

One friend moved to become a patient of the #2 Lyme disease specialist.

Another moved to become enrolled in a clinical trial. He was proclaimed terminal and went doctor shopping. (Still alive today.)

I've stayed anchored in my house for decades because I won't risk leaving my care providers (SCCA, FHCRC). I've had terrible experiences with noob doctors. As in life threatening.

I now better understand how doctors think. Recurring rounds of 20 questions time boxed to 15 minutes. Hopefully they've seen your condition before. If not, oops, too bad, out of time, take two aspirin and call me in the morning. Next!

YMMV.

[amyjess]

> If you can, I'd encourage you to find the care providers you need.

FWIW, it took a few years but I finally found a doctor I'm happy with. But I'm also lucky enough to live in a major US city.

[TurkishPoptart]

Q: If you say you are a trans woman, does that mean you are transitioning from MtF?

[amyjess]

Yes.

[intopieces]

> Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it.

Waking into a 15 minute appointment with months worth of research seems like a bad way to approach collaboration with healthcare professionals. Or do people still have personal relationships with doctors outside the appointment window?

It seems like GPs have become dispensers of medicine rather than care.

[carbocation]

It isn't always possible to answer every question in 15 minutes, but I think it's helpful when people have questions to come prepared with those questions. It's literally our job to provide health advice; the "realities" of dealing with high volume can't/shouldn't change that.

[mathgladiator]

Concierge medicine in some areas allow hour long appointments which makes the exchange of complex health concerns effective. I really wish the model would scale up, but primary care doctors are currently slaves to an administration.

[umvi]

The only people that do months of research are those with a chronic disease (diabetes, cancer, Lyme, etc.)

However, many people will at least do several hours of research before going into the doctor

[amyjess]

Regarding chronic disease...

So I have a friend with Hashimoto's. Before finally being diagnosed, she had a long history of being misdiagnosed, blown off, and having her symptoms dismissed as nothing. After being diagnosed, she connected with a number of other Hashimoto's patients and sufferers of chronic illness in general and found out that pretty much everyone she's talked to has the same stories. Constant invalidation, ignoring of symptoms, doctors just plain not listening, until they finally find someone who actually knows their stuff.

[Baeocystin]

>Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it.

A couple of years ago my GI specialist put me on a medicine that had just been approved that was designed for my type of gut issues. We spent a lot of time talking about what we hoped to see, and he spent a lot of time listening to what my experience actually was. This has continued ever since, and he always spends a lot of time listening, because I am one of his few patients that takes that medicine. This patient / doctor feedback loop is incredibly important!

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

Had a similar experience with hypothyroidism as a kid. "he's just lazy" those worthless fuck physicians said...

[ohithereyou]

>Doctors are mortals too and can only have so much time to draw on info they crammed X years ago.

First, doctors are expected and generally pursue continuing education. As much as the "golfing at an exotic locale during a medical conference" is a meme, many of those conference also educate doctors on new therapies.

Second, let's not pretend that the drug conpany reps don't get as damn close to bribery as possible to get their medications in front of doctors and in hospitals