[mariedm]

Just the fact that StackOverflow have been accused of not being inclusive at all is enough to create something else. They also have moderation issues. I’m trying to keep a high quality standard on Women Make, just like dang and sctb here with the moderation.

Also, like I said in another comment, women tend to promote themselves/put themselves in front of others much less. The idea of Women Make is really to show them they can and they should. So basically it’s giving women confidence, and the specific support they don’t necessarily get from other places.

[uncle_j]

> Just the fact that StackOverflow have been accused of not being inclusive at all.

Can you clarify this? Anyone can sign up with an account and the whole thing is meritocratic.

[dang]

Maybe it's best if we don't go off topic into that. HN has had massive discussions about it and this wouldn't be a great place for another.

[soheil]

And you don't see any issue with suppressing the discussion around this clearly sensitive issue? You taking one side is a sure way to alienate many on the opposing side. Let's have an unbiased discussion while maintaining civility.

It seems like you're trying to tell people what they can and cannot discuss more and more on HN.

> Can you clarify this? Anyone can sign up with an account and the whole thing is meritocratic.

This seems like a perfectly reasonable question.

[dang]

It isn't a question of suppressing discussion, as you'll see if you look at the voluminous threads HN has had about that (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22132714). It's just a question of what's on topic in a given thread. If you allow a hotter topic with greater mass to enter into a smaller thread, the discussion will get sucked into its gravitational field. That approach leads to all threads being dominated by the same handful of hot topics over and over, so we try to avoid that here.

Re "taking one side": it always feels like mods take the other side. The people on the opposite side from you feel that we're taking your side; I guarantee it.

[uncle_j]

I was asking her why she thought that. Not what other people thought.

[dang]

Your comment was perfectly natural. It's just that we know from experience what sort of thread that would likely lead to, as I explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22140452. Stack Overflow is much larger than the OP's fledgling community, and the recent controversies about it have burned pretty hot, so it could easily have become the dominant topic. That wouldn't be fair either to the fledgling community or to the HN community, which benefits more from having a new discussion than repeating an old one.

Also, I don't think it's really fair to the OP if we start putting her on the spot about Stack Overflow. She probably hasn't thought that much about it, since for most people the only way to get a project like this off the ground is by focusing on one thing for a long time.

[pezo1919]

Can you please share a link? It would help a lot!

[dang]

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[pezo1919]

Thanks!

[blowski]

What could us men do to improve the support they give on sites other than Women Make? I'm always afraid that my attempt at a supportive gesture will feel like I'm patronising or mansplaining.

[rectang]

One thing I think is key to being a good ally is to work mostly in the background, to avoid the spotlight unless necessary, and to yield or share it when possible. Speak less, listen more, trust what you hear and defer to the judgment of the underrepresented party.

There was a moment in college when I was participating in a Take Back the Night march, and I was leading the call-and-response chant "What do we want? Safety! When do we want it? Now!" It felt awkward and wrong. Once I stopped leading the chant and started participating vigorously in the response of the call-and-response, it felt right.

[sergiotapia]

This comment is incredibly cringy. GP do _not_ think this way. Be careful.

[rectang]

What is your actual objection?

[MiracleUser]

but you were able to lead the group into a chant in the first place so how would that have happened if you would have instead favored being in the background from the beginning?

Maybe your sentiment can be enhanced by not gatekeeping participation - but by promoing a handover of leadership to more symbolic choices once the work of buuilding momentum is done. This is a rule that could be applied to any demographic-based leadership that needs to organize its aesthetic as it grows

[rectang]

When and how to speak out is something that every ally is going to wrestle with, so everyone will have experience with it. Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted. If it hadn't been that night it would have been another.

But there is no substitute for the underrepresented assuming actual positions of real power and leadership — breaking through ceilings, becoming role models, making mistakes and overcoming them... and eventually becoming ordinary and routine.

[gshdg]

Here's a good resource: https://betterallies.com/

[tsukurimashou]

Don't say "us men" as if we were a single minded entity, thanks