[mambojumbo]

German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add new leds and interior eye candy but that is not progress. Imo german cars are low quality and lack diversity, and same goes for most machinery made in that country. US, Japanese, South Korean or other EU made products can be of similar or higher quality. Germany has such an economic power because the EU is heavily biased towards its needs. Just have a walk around east Europe and you will see how it has become junkyard for german cars. Suddenly the environment doesnt matter. Furthermore Germany is pretty socialist, both corporate and personal and has plenty of ways to subsidise industries and prevent too much innovation from rocking the boat.

[jonathanstrange]

I cannot agree with this assessment, because you're talking about a key industry from the 80s. Germany's strengths is not just in cars, but also in tangible b2b products that require a high degree of know-how and engineering. Southern Germany is plastered with such companies, they deliver products to the rest of the world you and I haven't even heard of unless you're working in some specific business. These companies are very competitive and innovative.

[kaybe]

If you have a problem with a product and call them about it, sometimes you can talk to the people who designed and built it, it's quite nice. They will also work with you to build similar things not yet in their catalogue if you need them (sometimes inventing new processes on the way), even if you don't need a lot.

[kensai]

No pun intended, dude, but I think you speak mambo jumbo... :D

"German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation."

Germany just surpassed again South Korea as the most innovative country. News are just three days old. Where do you base your own assessment? Did your BMW break down?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-b...

[moooo99]

Disclaimer: I'm from Germany and work in the automotive industry

I think he is partially right, at least when you define innovation as being mainly of digital nature. There have been lots of improvements on the mechanical side, cars have become a lot more efficient, and quieter (or louder if you prefer). But when it comes to making the cars smarter or even electric, there hasn't been a whole lot of innovation. Since connect everything is the major trend right now, people often consider innovation as being mainly digital. While digital technologies are a major infuence nowadays, the mechanical side should not be forgotten.

But the German automakers seem to really struggle with software becoming a major influence in peoples car-buying decision. BMW started with its "Conntected Drive" services, but since then, they haven't made a whole lot of progress, just a lot of completely unrealistic concept cars. The same is for Mercedes, they started their MBUX project a few years ago and at first, it really looked promising. Now, when I'm sitting in my friends MBUX Mercedes, its just a infotainment system as stupid as any other one. Volkswagen made big promises with its upcoming VW I.D platform and IMHO, this is the biggest single step a German automaker took since I'm alive.

[pvaldes]

I think that this was not exclusive from germany. It was a global change of paradigm

Every single big car brand experienced a period of very confused years (bordering panic for some of them) between 2000 and 2005 IMHO when faced the truth that the old trustable mechanics must either be replaced by mechatronica in a rush, or be overcomed and left behind by the new competitors.

Some so-so models were hurriedly launched in those years as result. Some of those soon started suffering lots of random errors and must be recalled and eventually replaced.

Cars now are computers with tires, all coated in plastic. Metal is ethernal, electronics not so much. Do not expect this soft and delicate matherials to last much more than your computer.

[greedo]

My VW just broke down. Manufactured in Frankfurt, and shipped to the US. It has known defects that were recently settled as part of a class action lawsuit, so this isn't just anecdotal.

The Fine German engineering required the removal of the front bumper to replace a headlight bulb (just the bulb, not the entire assembly). What kind of idiot designs a car that way? The fuel injectors on the 2.0t engine routinely clog up with low mileage, requiring either expensive cleaning, or more expensive replacement.

The suspension has a design flaw that results in tires cupping after only 2-3k miles. Tire rotation does nothing to solve the problem; purchasing expensive tires doesn't alleviate the issue, they just wear out as fast, costing $$. VW has known about this issue since this model was released but denies responsibility.

The number of recalls this car has had in a short 8 years is a joke. The number of repairs it has required outside of recalls in 8 short years is a joke. The VW that built the Bug, the Bus, the Rabbit/Golf, Sciracco and Jetta, that VW has died. Now VW is just trying to push up market and failing.

I've owned a VW for the entirety of my driving life. This will be the last one I buy since VW (at least in the US) doesn't give a shit about quality.

[gdrulia]

Disclaimer: I'm from Lithuania, little eastern Europe country.

There has been a lot of talk about eastern Europe being a junkyard for german cars (or old european cars in general) in recents times, not the least locally, especially by politicians trying to justify weird decisions. Most of the time one vital factor remains overlooked, people don't have money for anything else here. German cars are valued by most the people, whether that is deserved or not is a different question. There are plenty of mechanic shops for repairing those cars and cars itself are cheap. Public transport is mostly horrible, so a car is a must for most people. If a family has a budget of ~€1500 per month, how can you realistically choose anything else but an old imported car from western Europe (majority from germany).

[makomk]

There's a lot of controversy about eastern Europe becoming a junkyard for old German cars because those cars produce lots of pollution that affects the health of everyone in the country, which is the whole reason Germany and the other rich European countries don't want them anymore. Also, to add insult to injury, not only is the EU not allowing countries to block imports of those old polluting cars, they simultaneously expect all EU countries to meet stringent limits on how much of the pollutants they pump out is present in the air of their cities.

[jotm]

> those cars produce lots of pollution

They do tax it, that's why a 1000 Euro car from Germany costs twice that once registered (or more) :/

[jotm]

Well, it's a junkyard of German cars because they just last longer and are cheap to fix (parts are from in Germany/EU, too). Japanese cars are second, simply because the number of German cars is so high.