[syshum]

>>Study after study after study shows that women in relationships with men are responsible for disproportionate

Actually they do not, please show me the studies, and actual data that does because the studies have seen say [1]

1. Women with FT jobs on Avg work 7.7 hours per day, and put in 2.6 hour per day on household chores or 10.3 hrs total per day

2. Men with FT jobs on Avg work 8.3 hrs, and put in 2.1 hours per week on household chores or 10.4 hrs per total per day

there is some data to show that heterosexual households Women primary work in the home (cleaning, cooking etc) and men primary work outside or on the home (lawn work, garbage, home maintenance, etc)

So unless you are going to cherry pick which "household and childcare related tasks" to specifically exclude the "household and childcare related tasks" men generally do there is no way to conclude that "women in relationships with men are responsible for disproportionate share of household and childcare related tasks"

[1]https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm

[joshuamorton]

> Actually they do not, please show me the studies, and actual data that does because the studies have seen say [1]

You can't use overall statistics to talk about specific cases of cross-sections. Yes, men work longer hours than women. But even in households where the woman is the primary earner, she takes on the majority of household chores, on average [1].

And this has been seen in multiple studies. See the "Work and Leisure for Dual-Income and Single-Income Couples" table here[2]. In single income families, a women earner spends 23 hours on household chores, compared to her (unemployed) parter, who spends ~29 hours on household chores. He gets around twice as much leisure time as she does.

Reverse the genders, and an employed man spends 14 hours on housework, while the unemployed woman will spend 45 hours on housework.

No matter who is employed, the mother always spends more time on housework than on leisure time, and the father always spends more time on leisure than on housework. That's true whether the family is dual income, the mother is the sole earner, the father is the sole earner, or neither parent works. In all cases, the mother spends more time on housework than leisure, and the father spends more time on leisure than housework.

[1]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2782401?seq=1

[2]: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in...

[syshum]

>>>You can't use overall statistics to talk about specific cases of cross-sections.

It seems when the overall statistics show a favorable / Advantaged result toward men over all statistics are just fine to use, but if they who an equality in the genders they become problematic and are no longer valid, odd how that works

as to the data on Stay at-home dads, I question the sample size on that, it is such a rare status that and I am sure there is a HUGE sample size problem when they compare stay at home mom households (which make up the vast majority of the Single Income House holds) to Stay at home Dad homes which are the rarest or rare.

[joshuamorton]

> as to the data on Stay at-home dads, I question the sample size on that, it is such a rare status that and I am sure there is a HUGE sample size problem

The pew social trends survey mentions that the number of stay at home dads is ~1/5 the number of moms. Smaller, but not so small as to make the conclusions invalid. You asked for studies and statistics and I provided. Please don't continue to move the goalposts.

> It seems when the overall statistics show a favorable / Advantaged result toward men over all statistics are just fine to use, but if they who an equality in the genders they become problematic and are no longer valid, odd how that works

Such as? I didn't see anyone doing that here. I saw you misunderstanding and attacking a claim, and then being unwilling to admit you were wrong when confronted with the evidence you requested. It's not easy to try and discuss these topics with you.

[CuriouslyC]

Speaking from personal experience, women often want things "just so" and men tend not to give a shit. So either the woman does it, or nags the man to do it, or gives up on it being done. None of those options is great, but the woman doing the work she desires done herself is the most fair and least damaging to the relationship.

[djcapelis]

Even the data you decided to pick for this conversation supports the opposite of your conclusion:

Household chores:

    --On an average day, 84 percent of women and 69 percent of men
     spent some time doing household activities, such as housework,
     cooking, lawn care, or household management. (See table 1.)

   --On the days they did household activities, women spent an average
     of 2.6 hours on these activities, while men spent 2.0 hours. (See
     table 1.)

Women: 156 min * .86 = 134 min / day

Men: 120 min * .69 = 83 min / day

Women dating men, on average have a share of household tasks is 161% of their partner’s.

Childcare:

    --On an average day, among adults living in households with
     children under age 6, women spent 1.1 hours providing physical
     care (such as bathing or feeding a child) to household children;
     by contrast, men spent 26 minutes providing physical care.
     (See table 9.)

Women: 66 min / day

Men: 26 min / day

Women dating men, on average have a share of childcare tasks is 253% of their partner’s.

This is without even needing to dig into the crosstabs, on the data source you picked. Which supports the both widely accepted and studied conclusion that household and especially childcare tasks among heterosexual couples are absolutely not evenly distributed.

As for more studies, feel free to, I dunno... pick any of them?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=hous...

I really shouldn’t have to do the math for you on this. Your point is about as well supported by the data as climate denial and at some point you lose the right to ask other people to prove this to you and just need to go read basically anything on this subject.

[syshum]

Your claim was not "women do more housework" your claim was "women do disproportionate amount" of housework

That to me would be Income Producing work + Housework.

So based on this response you believe that Housework should be a 50/50 Split even if Income-producing work is not? Meaning in a Single Income household the person making the income should put in an equal amount of household work to the person not bringing in income to support the household?

[djcapelis]

Ah. I see the disconnect. You managed to misinterpret both the point of this conversation and my specific claim.

The original poster I replied to suggested that if men pulled their weight in relationships wrt household tasks and childcare more often, women might have more time to devote to work.

You have decided to argue that women of course should spend more time in those areas, because they don’t spend as much time at work.

My claim was merely that women are in fact “responsible for disproportionate share of household and childcare related tasks” which is fully supported by all the data cited in this conversation.

You seem to be arguing that this is a perfectly fine thing. This completely ignores the possibility and frankly likely conclusion that the expectation that women do more of these tasks might have something to do with the fact that so many women aren’t in fact able to spend as much time focusing on their careers as they might otherwise.

To chose a concrete reason from too many relationships for too many women, if they don’t pick up the kid, then no one bloody will. So they don’t get to spend time to focus on work at the end of the day because they suddenly have to leave the workplace at a fixed time no matter what is happening or what thing they might want to spend a bit more time to nail down, because they are responsible for a disproportionate amount of childcare. Which then results in them being less able to be engaged and succeed in their careers, which can result in them opting for more flexible or reduced schedules, which then results in less take home pay, which then results in dudes on the Internet arguing that this is fully fair and there’s no mismatch whatsoever in response to a comment that merely points out that women perform a higher share of household and childcare tasks in an average relationship with a man.

What a mess.

[kqr]

It sounds like you missed the context of the discussion. The starting point was "women cannot take on more income producing work because they are all tied up in housework."