Ask San Franciscans: Is it worth taking a 2 week holiday to SF?

[newsisan]

Sorry for the brief title.

I live in Australia and am considering Uni in the SF region.

Currently trying to decide if it is worth taking a 2 week trip to SF to help my decisions regarding university.

If I go, what should I do? Can I get a feel for Unis like UC Berkeley and Stanford? Can I get a feel for the 'startup culture' and maybe even check out a startup? Can I get a feel for living in the city?

Moving here for 4 years is a pretty large commitment, and I would love any opinions you can offer.

[dotBen]

Nothing to do with startups, I think spending some time visiting campus before you apply is a wise idea. Like you said, it's 4 years you'll be here.

Just remember that neither Berkeley or Stanford are in San Francisco and if you attend either it is unlikely you would be living in San Francisco during your studies.

I'm assuming, therefore, you meant the SF Bay Area in which case definitely come and spend time in the East Bay (for Berkeley) and Palo Alto region (for Stanford).

The East Bay is known to be 'gritty' in (most) places and so if you've not lived in an inner-city area with social problems then its worth finding out if it is for you. Berkeley itself doesn't have quite those problems but many people who study there don't necessarily live in Berkeley itself.

Stanford does have a great campus, but for me the wider area is incredibly boring. If you just want to study for 4 years it's ideal, but if you see university life as a rite of passage as much as an academic experience you'll find yourself spending a lot of time in SF.

I should say, I'm envious (in a positive, good way) you are in a position academically and financially to be able to apply to either - I would have loved the opportunity to go but sadly never made it to university, let alone either of these fine institutions.

[gojomo]

All good info, except I think the "(most) places" overstates how "gritty" the East Bay is. There are more poor neighborhoods than on the peninsula and valley, yes, but also plenty of everything else as well – it's expansive and diverse in every dimension.

(The areas a Berkeley student is likely to live are more urban/dense than many a suburban – or Australian – newcomer might be familiar with, but still far from 'inner-city' conditions. The prevalence of panhandlers/streetdwellers is likely to be the most notable 'grittiness', in SF/Berkeley/Oakland, for people who haven't seen it before.)

[dotBen]

North of San Jose, its only East Palo Alto that comes to mind as an area of crime/danger/social issue - and frankly EPA has been massively cleaned up and gentrified since Ikea was built.

Oakland remains a dangerous city, with large 'no go' areas after dark (and even some during the day). Yes there are some nice parts, Piedmont is very trendy and Berkeley is pretty mellow. But you can't deny there remains some very serious issues in large parts of the East Bay.

[gojomo]

...but still not "most" places in the East Bay. (And though it may be a statistical anomaly, for homicides in 2011 so far SF is running even with Oakland, and San Jose almost as many.)

Edit: Corrected; at first I wrote that SF and SJ each had more than Oakland, but the actual numbers seem to be SF-11, O-11, SJ-10... if the rate continues, each will have a much worse year than last year.

[gsivil]

I have visited SF only for a bit and I had the chance to visit Berkeley and Stanford. I really liked the city a lot and I want to give you my two cents about these two Universities. If you get accepted by these Universities (and let's say you do not have any offers from better places on the East side) do not hesitate in accepting it even for a second. Stanford stands out not only as academic institution in terms of ranking but as a feeling in the campus. But Berkeley has the advantage of being so close to SF.

All the best for your choice and your trip

[bugsy]

If he's doing engineering there's not much on the east coast other than MIT. Stanford, CalTech and MIT are the three on the top and there is a big gap before the next one down.

Of these three, Stanford is the only one where a normal social life is possible, assuming that's desirable.

[gsivil]

I do not know what he is about to study but for example in CS there are very very good places on the east besides MIT.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...

The OP does not want to get details info in rankings and at such a top level I think being in Berkeley or Stanford or Cornell or Princeton is not so different.

[bugsy]

Cornell and Princeton have very poor engineering schools compared to Stanford. Princeton's physics and sciences are great, but not engineering is not comparable at all.

[_delirium]

From the perspective of CS academia, I don't think of Stanford and Cornell as having particularly noticeable prestige differences. Stanford is considerably larger, so is better-known in more areas, while Cornell specializes in a few, with a math-heavy, formal focus. Stanford's business/VC connections are definitely better known, though.

[mdon]

You clearly have no understanding of the enormity of the eastern time zone if MIT is the only engineering school you can think of.

[bugsy]

I can think of dozens of engineering schools. I listed the only one in the east that is comparable to Stanford or CalTech, not a comprehensive list of all the schools that are not as good. I hope now you understand the purpose of my previous post. Thanks.

[snikolov]

Your social life is largely what you make of it. I haven't hung out much at Stanford, and I'm not sure what the parent considers to be a normal social life, but as an MIT student, I would advise the OP to not let such stereotypes deter him from considering MIT or Caltech or any other top school.

[nostrademons]

CMU, Olin, UIUC? (Technically, two of those three are in the Midwest, but close enough...)

[kmiyer]

Deciding whether it's a good idea to visit depends heavily on your financial / visa situation. If it's feasible, then it's a great idea! I came to Berkeley as an international student without having the opportunity to visit and things turned out just fine, but in retrospect I'd have loved the opportunity to get to know the area beforehand.

As others have said, most students at either Berkeley or Stanford don't live in SF. Staying there makes sense as a tourist though, both are easily accessible through day trips and you get to enjoy SF.

If you do visit Berkeley, a great way to get a feel for it is to sit in on classes. You can see this semester's CS classes here http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Scheduling/CS/schedule.html. If you talk to the EECS department before hand they'll be glad to organize a mini-tour for you where can chat with a current student. If that doesn't work out, there are enough Cal students (like myself) frequenting Hacker News who'll be glad to show you around.

Edited to add: http://www.quora.com/Which-place-should-avid-technophile-per... would probably be of interest to you.

[drallison]

Visit the Universities and walk around campus. If you know what you will be studying, go visit with some of the faculty. People are generally friendly and open. Both UC and Stanford have open lectures, for example, the Stanford EE Computer Systems Colloquium, http://ee380.stanford.edu. Check out the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View and Noisebridge in San Francisco. Take a look at http://www.dorkbot.org/dorkbotsf/ for an ongoing program of people doing strange things with electricity.

There are lots and lots of things to do in the Bay Area. There's the wine country to the north, Big Sur, Monterey, and Carmel to the south. Don't miss the Exploratorium and the Computer History Museum. One of my favorites is the SF Waterfront. If you have an iPhone, there is an App for that: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/san-fran-waterfront/id4075675... that will guide your tour.

[bugsy]

I'll speak from the perspective of an occasional visitor there with relatives and friends who live there.

Yes, it's a great city, the absolute best one of its size in the US. One of the few with good public transportation. There are fantastic places to go nearby like the Redwoods to the north and vineyards to the east.

Watch out though, if looking to party, most parts of the city has no nightlife except on weekends.

If you are doing engineering and can get into Stanford you should go there rather than Berkeley.

There are hostels that run $20 a night or less if you want to go on the cheap. Or you can couch surf if you have friends there already. Or since you are Australian you can probably find a girlfriend on okcupid to move in with for 2 weeks, they like the accent and most unattached men are gay, but it might be more trouble than it's worth.

Then again, since you are considering paying out of state tuition at a couple very expensive colleges, you must be fabulously wealthy and can just check into a suite at The Palace or Hotel Palomar.

[gojomo]

Upvoted for the suggestion of OKCupid as a short-term housing solution, I'd never heard that before and it made me chuckle. For more formal but still person-to-person accomodations, try AirBNB or Craigslist. :)

[bartonfink]

From Australia? Absolutely it's worth an extended visit, although 2 weeks is a long time. If you stay busy, you could probably explore the Bay area thoroughly in just one week. If you want to stay on the Pacific coast, I'd probably check out Seattle for another week just so you get the most bang for your visit.

[bugsy]

If you do this, take the Coast Starlight train from SF and stop in Portland on the way.

[AndrewO]

Portland's one of my favorite cities in the country (and I'm a lifelong East Coaster) and it's definitely worth a visit.

That said, if Stanford and Berkeley are in the mix, I don't know if any schools in Portland can quite compete.

[bugsy]

Oh sorry, to clarify, I didn't mean stop to look at schools, I meant if you are headed to Seattle for whatever (not sure what there is to do in Seattle, I lived there and don't really think of it as a tourist destination of any kind, but maybe Vancouver?), definitely take the train since it's a fun train (even though it will leave 6 hrs after it is scheduled to leave) and then might as well do a stop in Portland on the way. Just to hang out and check things out for a couple days since there's lost of fun things going on and interesting people. Not to look at schools.

[AndrewO]

You know, I reread what I wrote and it does sound like I was calling you out. Sorry about that. Let's just say Portland's awesome and if he gets a chance he should go. :)

[mc32]

Yeah, I think if you're going to scout the city and want to get a feel for what it would be like to live in SF (rather than vicinity, which is completely different) you should want to spend at least two weeks in SF.

I would say stay at an AirBnB for lodging. I think that will give you a better window into what daily life might look like for you. A hotel is going to be disengaged.

"Silicon Valley" kind of has as its epicenter in Palo-Alto. However, that really is a rough geographic description. Most mature companies are HQd in SF or San Jose (those are the normal boundaries). SF has companies and startups, tho most could be considered companies which use web-technologies to provide services (AirBnB, Yelp, Craigslist) whereas peninsula companies might fit more the web-infrastructure and platformy (Google, VMware, Verisign, FB) side of things. Mountain View-Santa Clara-San Jose is more Hardware (Intel, Cisco, IBM). That's overly simplified. It's just to give you some rough bearing.

UC Berkeley is 30 mins away via Rapid Trainsit (Bart), Stanford U is about 1hr from SF on Commuter Rail (CalTrain)

SF is a bit expensive to live in, as a student with little income. Your situation might be different. Many people share rent or the sort, to make things more affordable, if they do want to remain in SF. However, that introduces the vagaries that come with having roommates.

You can look for upcoming events you might want to check out here http://sf.funcheap.com/events/san-francisco/

Lodgning at: airbnb.com

look at rent info: http://hotpads.com/ also http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/hhh/

Proto- Startup Culture, maybe a quick stop at Hacker Dojo? http://wiki.hackerdojo.com/w/page/25437/FrontPage (It's in the middle of a middle-aged non-descript office park, but it's reachable via Caltrain Mountain View Station ~10 min walk)

[marshray]

Speaking as one who lived in hip college towns for years and didn't attend. At the end of your stay, nothing about the town will be as memorable as the school itself (unless you get arrested or something).

Unless you have a spouse who won't be in the same univ, I'd suggest ignoring the city entirely. Plan to live (i.e., spend the entirety of your productive life) in the school. Avoid having a car if at all possible.

Of course there's a crapton of stuff to do in the area, it's a world-renowned city. But save it for when relatives come to visit!

[mattdeboard]

I'm sorry, what? Have you ever BEEN to San Francisco? I lived there for 2.5 years. It's unforgettable, and I miss it every day.

[marshray]

Been in the area once. Spent most of my time at the awesomest bookstore in the world on the Stanford campus.

[cema]

The "area" of San Francisco is nothing like the city of San Francisco.

[mtviewdave]

Whether or not a trip to the SF Bay Area would be helpful or you is hard to say. But two weeks strikes me as a very long time just for the Bay Area. A day at Berkeley, a day at Stanford, a day or two hanging out at some startups, maybe going to a meetup or two. A week strikes me as plenty.

If you want to stay more than a week (and having done SFO<->SYD myself, I can understand if you would), you should think about visiting other cities.

If you're staying in San Francisco, you can get to either school, or anywhere in San Francisco proper, without a car. But a car starts to become necessary for anything beyond that. Note that many car rental companies won't rent to someone younger than 25, and those that do, will generally charge extra. And I suspect a lack of an American driver's license would further restrict your options.

[hsmyers]

It has been too many years since I spent careful time (on foot with backpack in the late 60's) in SF so I can only relate my experience in Berkeley. First an admission--- I am invariably biased in or out of favor of a city based on it's bookstores. Berkeley has so many good ones that there is no real competition in the Bay area. Two prime examples and worth at least a couple of days attention each are Moe's Books and Cody's Books. You would wind up with an excellent education just by attending both even if you skipped all of your classes at Berkeley. As for the startup culture, perhaps someone else with hands on knowledge will chime in here...

[beoba]

FYI Cody's is closed: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Codys_Books

[AndrewO]

There's plenty to see in the Bay Area, but if you need to get out, there's a lot of natural beauty elsewhere. When I visited, I rented a car and drove down the Pacific Coast Highway[1] to Big Sur and it was absolutely amazing. Dramatic views of the coast, beautiful canyons... Loved it. I definitely came away with a case of coastline envy (although I don't know how it compares with Australia).

You can get there and back in a day if you get an early start (or you can overnight).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_Highway_(Californ...

[vnchr]

With public transportation, I've been able to cover most of the valley and downtown SF in a few days. It's a great place to make the most from a short visit.

Budget at least 2 days for each university. Stanford is very walkable. I've covered the whole thing in under a day--it's my favorite part of my visits. You'll want more time to talk to students, learn about its academics....

And just head to an entreprneurial Meetup that's convenient. If you ask enough people, someone who works for a startup will be willing to bring you in for a day.

Have fun! As a non-San Franciscan, it's my favorite place to visit alone and explore.

[tjsnyder]

The best thing you will get are the friendships and connections in the startup world. If you want to be in a startup, your best opportunities will come from bring in sf.

[dreur]

Thanks for asking since I am also thinking about taking two weeks there in May. But not for the same reasons. I am starting my professional career in May just finished a CS degree at the U of Sherbrooke (Quebec).

I would like to visit the city and do some networking there too. Maybe try some surfing.

Any ideas how and where to start ?

[xargs38]

I'm orig from LA, lived in Vienna for a few years, then moved to the bay area for the past 10yrs. You'll feel at home and like it just fine, it's a no brainier IMO.

[georgieporgie]

Definitely consider couch surfing during your visit, as it will give you an instant connection to the area and local advice.

SF itself is heavily populated by hipsters, which is either your thing or very irritating. SF is foggier and cooler than the surrounding areas, particularly in the summer months.

[zmanian]

The San Francisco area has