[BjoernKW]

I'm located in Europe. I wrote about this here in the wider context of accounting: https://bjoernkw.com/2016/04/03/accounting-in-2016/

Not much has changed since then. I still can't have my accounting software automatically import bank statements from my business account. I need to manually log in to the online banking app, download a CSV export file, convert that to an MT940 file (using https://github.com/msc01/soacsv2mt940 ) and finally import that into my accounting software.

So, my main issue is with APIs and data availability - or rather lack thereof.

[twunde]

This seems to be true in the US as well. Getting exports is a pain, in fact I think during our first finance audit, we had trouble getting monthly exports past a certain date. I know for a fact that our current bank doesn't work with our expensing software, so that has to be done manually

[BjoernKW]

> we had trouble getting monthly exports past a certain date

Same here. Quite frankly, I think this is outrageous. Every ordinary company has to keep accounting records for a certain number of years (10 years in Germany, where I'm located). Banks, however, apparently get away with what essentially amounts to throwing away records after 6 months or so.

[krel]

Yeah, that is pretty wild.

Bjoern, I saw you're located in Germany — does any of the neobanks help you solve this? I guess switching bank don't solve the problem of getting your old data though, even if it would make it easier to get hold of _future_ records.

[BjoernKW]

No, unfortunately not.

Last time I checked more thoroughly and based on admittedly rather cursory research right now neobanks such as Holvi, N26 or Fyrst either a.) provide a fully integrated accounting software and no API / data exchange at all, b.) only integrate with specific accounting software products such as lexoffice, or c.) only allow you to export CSV files.

They seem even more like walled gardens than traditional banks.

While I described MT940 as the "WTF of file formats" at least it's some sort of loosely agreed upon standard, as is HBCI. Both of these formats / protocols are dated and cumbersome to work with but they at least allow you to access and exchange data in an automated fashion. None of the neobank products seem to support those and there's no modern, easier-to-use alternative protocol either, none that I know of at least.

Furthermore, some of those neobanks have had a reputation of summarily closing customer accounts that didn't fit their business model anymore. That makes them way too erratic and unreliable for running a business.

[krel]

Right, interesting.

Regarding closing down accounts — I recently made a detour into the Revolut subreddit and it's filled mostly with people gushing about their accounts being shut down without notice.

Now, I never know how much of that is on the company and how much is on the user doing something shady, but regardless, I would not dare to take such chances with my business.

Thanks for pointing that out — had not connected the dots until now.

[zhte415]

Given you're in Europe, are you seeing any change from PSD2? New service providers offering the service you outline?

PSD2 background: https://www.finextra.com/blogposting/12668/psd2---what-chang...

[BjoernKW]

The main difference customers are seeing due to PSD2 is revised 2FA for online banking apps, which for the most part is good because the new measures arguably are more secure.

However, in terms of data access they create another obstacle because while previously you could at least do screen scraping for automatically retrieving data that option is no longer available either because a human being has to interact with the bank-issued 2FA device / mobile app.

The bank I use actually provides an API now: https://developer.commerzbank.com/en

I'll have to delve further into the documentation to see if it suits my needs.

Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe, there's hope yet after all :-)