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by deepVoid 2390 days ago
The gamble has not failed. It just takes longer. Democracy and market economy are definitely gaining on the Chinese people. More people are studying aboard and wanting China to be more like the West, although some bureaucrats are stubborn and holding China back. Take Hong Kong as an example, nobody would image such pro-democracy would happen at such a massive scale. Hong Kong people have done it. The Hong Kong people demand democracy more than ever. I am very very proud of them.
2 comments
president 2390 days ago
> The gamble has not failed. It just takes longer.

Sure, and if you give a monkey with a typewriter infinite time, he'll eventually write Shakespeare. The point is, we made the bet 50 years ago and China has only become less free and more totalitarian. How much longer are you willing to wait? If you keep the status quo, you'll just be strengthening the iron-grip of the anti-democracy-at-all-costs CCP party.

> Take Hong Kong as an example, nobody would image such pro-democracy would happen at such a massive scale.

I've only ever heard this line from the CCP propaganda media and biased pro-Beijing people. For most of the world it was a given.

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deepVoid 2390 days ago
> 50 years ago?

Can you provide any link or evidence that you made the specific bet 50 years ago?

> Sure, and if you give a monkey with a typewriter infinite time, he'll eventually write Shakespeare.

Only impatient and ignorant monkeys think it takes several years to change 1.4 billion people.

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president 2390 days ago
> Can you provide any link or evidence that you made the specific bet 50 years ago?

US relations with China began in the 1970s during the Nixon administration. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon%27s_1972_visit_t....

> Only impatient and ignorant monkeys think it takes several years to change 1.4 billion people.

It's a matter of willingness, not time. If Xi can create a system to surveil and restrict the free speech of 1.4 billion people in less than 10 years, I'm sure he can create a system of Democracy in even less time than that.

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deepVoid 2390 days ago
> US relations with China began in the 1970s during the Nixon administration.

US started diplomatic relationship with China, in order to fight USSR, not to put a bet. USSR was by far the bigger threat and the US and China had a common enemy.

> If Xi can create a system to surveil and restrict the free speech of 1.4 billion people in less than 10 years.

Have you not learned a thing in your whole life? Changing 1.4 billion people's ideology is way way way harder than building a surveillance system.

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president 2390 days ago
Do you think it's easier to put someone in a prison or to let them out? Have a little faith in the Chinese people :)

EDIT: I think you missed my point but I think I should leave you with your rose-tinted glasses on.

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deepVoid 2390 days ago
Exactly. :) Those bureaucrats are holding back the 1.4 billion lovely people. We need to differentiate the people from the CCP. The people love the US and freedom. I am proud of the people in Hong Kong. They are fighting for their own freedom harder than ever.
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analyst74 2390 days ago
I'm curious why parent is down-voted, is this line of thinking completely out of wack? I thought China is definitely going to become more democratic, following similar path as Japan and Korea.
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president 2390 days ago
In what way is China becoming more democratic? Last time I heard, China doesn't have free elections and those that spoke against the government got jailed, beaten, or disappeared.
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retrac 2390 days ago
China has indeed gone through a number of phases of relative (relative being the key word) openness. Similar to the Krushchev thaw, subsequent re-tightening, and then re-loosening in the late Soviet era.

After the Mao era, things became increasingly unrestricted until the '89 crackdown. A second relative period of relatively lax censorship came in the new century. It has been tightening again since Xi came to power, but arguably still less strict and totalitarian than under Mao.

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CharlesColeman 2390 days ago
> I'm curious why parent is down-voted, is this line of thinking completely out of wack? I thought China is definitely going to become more democratic, following similar path as Japan and Korea.

China is not following a similar path. The CCP has been tightening its grip, and China is arguably less liberal now than it was when Xi took power (for instance: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/magazine/the-lonely-crusa...).

The CCP has been much more successful at fusing authoritarianism with capitalism than anyone anticipated.

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