[cik]

It's not even competitive athletes. It's folks doing the local race.

Years ago, when I was an avid cyclist, I was turned off my first local race, a meaningless city race. Three guys, and two girls were doping in the parking lot. To this day I have yet to be at a single race where people aren't doping prior.

[mixmastamyk]

What does “doping in the parking lot” mean exactly?

[_eric]

I believe the parent meant people literally doping in the parking lot space.

[azhenley]

Using performance enhancing drugs in the parking lot prior to the race.

[dman]

I do not understand the mindset where you would cheat for essentially no payoff.

[braythwayt]

What do you mean by, "no payoff?"

Are you aware that winning is itself a payoff for certain people? And they want to win at everything, at every level?

You may not sympathize with these people, or agree with them, but they are not difficult to understand. In fact, they are easy to understand.

When people ask me why there is doping in masters bicycle racing, I quote: "Why are University Politics so vicious? Because the stakes are so small."

People's desire to "win," and the lengths they will go to "win," are not tied to economic or power rewards.

[dman]

I think the university politics part is different because there is at least some "power" or "influence" that you get to field no matter how small. I look at individual sports like running / cycling in an amateur setting as a pure outlet for self improvement. If the only person who is looking at my time is me, then whom am I really cheating by improving it using steroids?

[braythwayt]

"I look at individual sports like running / cycling in an amateur setting as a pure outlet for self improvement."

Well, naturally if you look at it like that, then why cheat except possibly because you are curious about how far you can take your body with assistance?

But we are not the ones cheating, and the people who cheat do not look at amateur sports they way we do. To them, there is a top dog in everything, And it's meaningful to them to be the top dog.

No matter how small the pond, there's always somebody who cares very deeply about being the biggest fish.

[dman]

Thanks for explaining patiently.

[AWildC182]

Used to compete in very high level amateur races in another sport. Winning for the sake of winning alone is addictive, though not always in a bad way. Some just become more obsessed than others.

I should add, not everyone dopes though. My sport was relatively clean due to the amateur nature and the limited efficacy. Those of us who leaned toward technical competency were usually able to take on the roid-dudes without too much difficulty.

[marcmartino]

But could you take on roid-dudes who also leaned toward technical competency?

[AWildC182]

Sure, but it's really complex. They existed but were somewhat rare because there just wasn't that much incentive because there wasn't any money. The ones who went that direction tended to either be in a different part of the sport that favored technical competency less (sorry US mens 8+...) or were just extremely frustrated with their performance because they didn't understand the multifaceted nature of the competition.

[eckza]

What sport, if you don't mind the question?

[AWildC182]

Rowing. Used to race the 1x/2x at the 'elite' level.

[roel_v]

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is also very niche, very little money in competing, yet there are hundreds of professionals who build their schools (with paying students) based on their competition record. There is no way to compete at the top (and even sub top) without juicing, because the top guys are extremely technical and very strong (and they can train 6 days a week, 2 times a day, plus s&c, which no normal human can sustain for months or years).

[autokad]

there is plenty of payoff, and I'm not just talking about the social aspect of it. contrived example: they could do a youtube channel and winning those races gets them the cred from viewers to bring them thousands a month.

Since everything is monitizible, we'll probably see cheating in many places we dont traditionally see it. It reminds me of the movie limitless, everyone successful was doing the drug

[scruple]

This is basically the fitness industry as it exists today.