[MS90]

I do work in software, and I do save my money. However, unless I'm suddenly given a massive raise it's going to take 5 or more years until I have what I consider "FU money" saved up. I wouldn't really consider saving up money over years and years as "just getting it"

[PenguinCoder]

Wow. A whole 5 years to get "FU Money" saved up. That's a blessing, and can strongly be considered "just getting it". Short of an inheritance, or winning the lottery, normally salaried or hourly workers will never have "FU money"; let alone in 5 short years.

[sloopy543]

Where does your money go? Do you regularly audit your finances and account for it all?

I have a bigass spreadsheet I use to track every last dollar, and I ruthlessly optimize everything.

Cell phone plan, down to $30/month. Health insurance, just $300/month. No tv. No subscriptions. No commute. Even if I did, I own my car outright so no car payment. No B.S. pre-packaged food. I cook pretty much everything at home. Have done so for years. Minimal eating out, once a month or so at inexpensive restaurants. No debt. Of any kind. So therefore no interest payments.

A few small "luxury" expenses here like a ski pass because you only live once.

All of this is completely within the realm of someone who makes $70k per year or more, the bottom rung of software development.

You should be able to hit $100K in savings in five years if you are smart with your money. Likely more if you really hustle and audit every dollar. Maybe a little less if you're supporting kids, but you can optimize how you spend your money on them too.

[perl4ever]

There are a lot of people who are programmers but aren't "software developers", particularly not "full stack" buzzword enabled types. If you've been programming for a decade or two, and haven't had that title, you're likely not going to get that $70K that fresh grads will. Likely not even hired, for "cultural fit".

Hope you don't fall off the treadmill, because if you do, you'll find out there is no way back and no pity.

[sloopy543]

Oh I've had plenty of struggles myself. I've gone six months without work and had to spend several years just building my skills to the point where others would find them valuable.

On top of that, I was super stubborn about always working remotely, which I got but only after rejecting one place after another. I would have kept employment easily had I just been more willing to drive into an office every day.

I happen to be young, but I work with plenty of people who are much older than me and greyer too, so I don't really buy the ageism argument. The market is hot and if you can deliver the goods, chances are you can get a job.

[perl4ever]

"if you can deliver the goods"

Demonstrating what you can do at a temporary job is a viable tactic, but it takes luck to find the right one and sacrifices if it's paying half what you're used to.

When you're just out of college, you can tell people in an interview that you've been learning a language on your own, and you've done this and that, and you're confident you can be useful. And they will hire you. That's how I got my first post bachelor's job.

But ten or twenty years down the line, you can't do that. Any job with 5-10 requirements, they aren't interested in hearing how you have been studying it at home, how you were working with something similar 6 months or 10 years ago. You have to be using all of the things on a daily basis now. And confidence you can learn any language equates to arrogance and "not a cultural fit".

You don't appreciate the difference between a college grad and someone a bit older. The issue isn't that everyone who's older insists on a senior level salary, when they don't know, say, Java or Python. The issue is that it's assumed they can't even learn anything new, regardless of experience, if they aren't doing it right now.

What I did personally was to find a job with zero technical requirements that happened to be ripe for automation, so I could do whatever I wanted in any spare moment and learn whatever I thought might be useful. But in retrospect, I think it was extreme luck that I found it, and that I was at my best for the interview. Because 99% of similar jobs are just, file stuff, answer phones, move boxes.

[PenguinCoder]

Congrats on having no debt of any kind. I have debt. I also strictly budget my income and expenses (also with a big ass spreadsheet). Healthcare costs me more than $300/mo. Daycare (1.8k/mo), housing (1.2k/mo), car ($600/mo all inclusive) and food ($550/mo for a family of 4), are my largest expenses. Don't tell me to get rid of the car; I don't live in a city or area with ANY public transportation. The car is literally, it. No I'm not moving to CA. I don't have luxuries to cut. I don't go out to eat, I don't have Netflix, Spotify, Amazon prime, or the latest phone (my phone is a One Plus 3). I use a service provider that costs me $60/mo for two lines (TOTAL - $60/mo) for cell phone. TV is friends Plex or free Roku apps.

I won't say how much I have in savings, but your 100k in five years (20k saved a year?! SERIOUSLY?! that's more than min wage full time job, PRE TAX!) is not at ALL realistic. No I don't work a Min Wage job, but I'm not SF/Bay/SV area salary wither.

[frequentnapper]

100k in savings is not FU money, especially with a mortgage and a family...

[sprflyprgrmrguy]

100k in accessible funds is "FU, I'm going to go get another job, even if it takes 6-12 months" money.

I have an emergency fund of roughly 3-6 months of necessary bills. It's not really enough to say "FU", but it's enough to give me an emotional buffer of, "I could leave if things got bad enough"

[MS90]

I've already been saving for 5. And by "FU" money I was considering an amount that would allow me to say "fuck you" to a boss and survive until I found a new job without worrying too much. Like, $100,000 or less. Probably closer to $70k, after ten years of saving.

[mattsfrey]

What industry do you work in? I do software and can quit and find a new job within a month no problem, 10k is more than sufficient...

[perl4ever]

"quit and"

How many times have you quit without plans and gotten right back to work?

[novok]

You my friend, need to go get a better paying job. Get out of Europe/Canada/Asia and get a software job in the USA.

[MS90]

I do have a software job in the USA. However, with the exploding prices of everything in Austin, it's getting harder and harder to hang onto any cash. I get consistent raises year over year but don't feel that I have any more money.

[novok]

Even better! I would suggest studying for interviews with something like interview cake & leetcode and getting a job at a FANG.

Try moving to seattle or if rain doesn't work for you, the bay area. With an income of $300k+ you could probably save that $100k amount in a few years. Don't move until you have job, that way you get a relocation benefit and that $3000/month rent won't seem that crazy to you.

Even working at a startup will pay you better than what I'm estimating you make in austin.

[MS90]

Yeah, no thanks. I've been to Seattle and to the bay area and I wasn't a fan of either. I have an entire life built here and have zero desire to ever move, and even less to work for a FAANG.

There's much more to my life than being a programmer, that's just what I do for work. My life does not revolve around it.

[ClumsyPilot]

Have you ever heard of Visas and family commitments?

[novok]

Yeah, I had to get a visa & navigate family commitments too. It was a sacrifice, but now I can support my family overseas better.

[ClumsyPilot]

Just trying to point out that your advise is not universal. I have moved to UK, but if my parents were ill and in need of care, that would have been impossible.

[sloopy543]

Semantics. It obviously takes time to build independence, but you can do it. It is in your power. Nobody really has to tolerate micromanagement unless they're just starting out

[MS90]

Yeah, I'm with you on that. My original comment was really tongue in cheek, and I agree with most of what you said in your original post. I'm the same way, I refuse to put work email or slack on my phone and once I clock out for the day I am done. I work from 7-4 M-F and do almost zero thinking about work outside those hours. I've been at my company for five years now and I keep getting promoted so my email habits are obviously irrelevant to my employment status.

If I were to get fired for "not responding fast enough" or something like that, then I wouldn't want to work at that place anyway. I'm a programmer and I get paid to program, so that's what I do. It's worked out pretty well so far :)

[sloopy543]

Yep. It's all about VALUE. If you are there when it matters and you help your customers achieve the OUTCOME they care about, they will happily forget those few moments when you were late to a meeting or didn't answer an email or Slack message right away.

Life is not grade school. You don't get points for just showing up. You actually have to do meaningful work that produces a valuable result for someone. People will happily tolerate the slightly disheveled dude who shows up with the critical component of their gold mine. They fire the smug well-spoken guy who keeps making excuses.