[pvaldes]

Trust me, in this case will be war

At difference than Norway, there is a silent majority in Catalonia that is fuming. They had being opressed in the last decades by separatism. Now they can't exit home without finding a burning barricade and the pavement vandalised, can't go to work without finding the highway blocked by a group of clowns sit singing kumbaya, can't enter in the university without the permit of masked people boycotting the classes and closing the doors (It does not really matter because they will not find a local job anymore in the 5000 companies that have quited the area by this permanent climate of confrontation).

Poor workers struggling to survive, students from modest families, owners of small family bussiness sued by using spanish in their small shops, elders that can't sleep by youngs playing war games all night... Being poked in the eye each month, each day, hour and minute, by children demanding permanent attention. Children that want to steal their rights and identity, make their lifes miserable and chase them off from their homes and properties...

In some moment of the future this silent half will face some apparently trivial issue, reach boiling point, explode and raise in a bloodthirsty rage swirl.

Separatists crave to achieve a reaction from Spain that would justify their agenda, but trust me, the mortal hit will come from inside.

The rest of Spain will take some popcorn and enjoy the carnage and backstabbing on TV

[tassl]

Ugh.

> Trust me, in this case will be war

Sorry, after reading your text the one thing I can't do is to trust you.

> At difference than Norway, there is a silent majority in Catalonia that is fuming.

I would love to see data on that; right now, pro-independence parties are majority in the parliament and have had 10x times the amount of people on the streets (without the need of bringing outsiders). That majority is not silent, is inexistent.

> Now they can't exit home without finding a burning barricade and the pavement vandalised (...)

All that is false. I have multiple friends in Barcelona and protests have been focalized in a small area (spanish police station in Via Layetana).

> It does not really matter because they will not find a local job anymore in the 5000 companies that have quited the area by this permanent climate of confrontation

That is also false. There were some movements of the headquarters address that didn't really affected the business. The part that should be scary to all democrats is how the Spanish government created a law specifically to facilitate this change of address and how the king of Spain started calling companies to do that change.

> The rest of Spain will take some popcorn and enjoy the carnage and backstabbing on TV

This is pretty disgusting and telling.

[pvaldes]

> I would love to see data on that; That majority is not silent, is inexistent.

This seems often like trying to explain colors to blind people. Even worse, to people that are not blind but refuse to understand even really simple concepts that everybody out of the bubble can see inmediately.

The population in Catalonia is 7,5 millions, and the people that voted independentist parties are 1,6 millions. Have you consider the possibility than not all those "inexistent" people are independentists?.

Lets assume that some strangers would appear at your door requiring politely you to leave your home and work and go away because you aren't in the right kind of thinking and your bloodlines are Spainted. Oh, and you are not a US citizen (or a german citizen, french, whatever...) anymore.

Would you fight back for defending your rights and your home?

If the separatists really expect all this millons of people lowering their head, going to the exile and leaving in peace without a word they are even dumber than they seem. They will wake up and eat them alive.

> protests have been focalized in a small area, a single street...

If you really want to educate yourself, a simple search in youtube will provide you with plenty of data that debunk this idea. Think about it.

> I don't trust you

Good. As I'm just a stranger in internet, this is the right thing to do. By the way, I don't care about who do you trust either, so is not a problem at all. Go out and explore the world by yourself. Cheers.

[tassl]

> The population in Catalonia is 7,5 millions, and the people that voted independentist parties are 1,6 millions. Have you consider the possibility than not all those "inexistent" people are independentists?.

7.5 million including kids and people who don't vote. 5.5 million people that can vote, ~4.3 that voted (2017 numbers). Over 2 million votes that voted explicitly pro-independence parties [1].

Those are the real numbers.

> Lets assume that some strangers would appear at your door requiring politely you to leave your home and work and go away because you aren't in the right kind of thinking and your bloodlines are Spainted. Oh, and you are not a US citizen (or a german citizen, french, whatever...) anymore.

That's sci-fi. It hasn't happen. It won't happen. If Catalonia would become independent, why would they kick anybody out?

> If you really want to educate yourself, a simple search in youtube will provide you with plenty of data that debunk this idea. Think about it.

Go to Barcelona, report back if that's a war zone or not. The problems/fires have been extremely focalized.

[1] https://eleccions.ara.cat/parlament-21d

[pvaldes]

> If Catalonia would become independent [because they can't stand anything remotely "spanish" now], why would they kick anybody out?

Because is easy to see that they wouldn't tolerate anything remotely "spanish" tomorrow in their cuckoopia and nobody would stop them to continue to make the life impossible to this people and increase the pressure until they go away, (except a resistance movement).

[squiggleblaz]

> pro-independence parties are majority in the parliament

Spanish democracy is malapportioned: Basically, rural voters get more of a say than urban voters. The pro independent parties have a majority in the Spanish parliament for the same reason that Republicans have a majority in the US Senate: Americans and Spaniards prefer havoc and civil war to democracy, so they'll do everything they can to make sure their parliaments are illegitimate. It's worked for them both before.

[squiggleblaz]

And here we have in just a few words an explanation of why we know that Spain learnt nothing about democracy in the 20th century.

The rest of us know that you permit democratic expression so that the force is spent at a ballot box. Most people don't want needless change (in fact, the countries first used referendums used them precisely to prevent change).

If Catalonia had've been permitted to vote in a fair referendum, it would've been lost 45 to 55 and there would be peace and order in the streets of Barcelona, just like Glasgow.

Instead, the ignoramouses in Madrid thought force was the first choice, and now everyone in Barcelona suffers - those who want change, and those who don't.

[vkou]

All of these things sound horrible, as do the people doing them.

Why do you insist on keeping people who feel that way in the country, against their will?

It's something that often puzzles me against political stances that oppose separatism. Often, they both express contempt for the people who want to leave, while at the same time, not allowing them to.

[dcabrejas]

Because we know it's not the cleverest idea in the world and therefore we don't want to play that game.

No-one is opposing separatism by the way, it's just that the whole country has to agree. The catalans signed up to the constitution like everyone else.

Why should they be able to shit all over it? And by the way is less than half of catalans who want this.

[tassl]

> Because we know it's not the cleverest idea in the world and therefore we don't want to play that game.

This awfully sounds like:

"We know better" "Hey Catalans, you guys don't really know what's good for you, so we are taking decisions on your behalf"

All your argument can only be explained from the right of conquest.

[pvaldes]

>"Hey Catalans, you guys don't really know what's good for you, so we are taking decisions on your behalf"

Hey Catalans, you guys really know what's good for you!, you are trying to get out of Spain and EU all in the same step. Hooow foxxxyyy!

You don't want to be like those savages that speak spanish in Chile, Buenos Aires, Mexico, Los Angeles or Madrid! you are too good to speak the language of torturers!

You can insult your main customers six times a day because you are best buzzinezmen in the world!. Customers love a "meneíto" and everybody will kill for buying your stuff made of pure freedom vapour! at any price!.

Independence will raise your economy to the stratosphere like a Winged San Jorge ascending to heaven with a choir of Xavier Cugats playing golden trumpets in the background!. The world will worship you as the first really freemocratic potency in Europe and you are zupaclever and megasmart and have a solid economic plan for the future.

...

That would be better for you?

Lies feel warm?

[vkou]

"I know what is best for you, you get no say" is a retort of dictators, not democracies.

[dcabrejas]

I don't need to be a dictator to know better than other people. It is just a fact that some people know better than others.

You seem to be implying that you know more than me by taking the higher road, you dictator! :P