[mlang23]

Poor Stache Overflow. I left Debian as a dev when it finally became apparent that gender and identity politics were dominating the community. I originally joined for the technical aspect, which felt like a byproduct at the time I left again. And I am a member of a fringe group. But I would never ever behave like most SJWs seem to do these days. And now downvote me, for not agreeing with the underpriviledged.

[jmull]

The problem with focusing on the behavior of certain SJWs is it ignores — and lets stand —the actual underlying issues.

If you want to solve any problems you need to move past getting baited or triggered by each provocative statement and engage the underlying issues.

[ethbro]

The problem (as I see it, and agree with gp's formulation) is of communities failing to police their own by using double-standards.

One set for "us", one set for "them."

It's okay for one of "us" to be rude, aggressive, or argue outside of good faith. Because it's in service of justice.

But heaven forbid "they" do the same thing. In which case they're terrible people, how dare they, etc.

This happens in both liberal-dominated and conservative-dominated forums.

And the solution is for each and every one of us, at all times, to call a duck a duck. If someone is an asshole, they're an asshole. Full stop.

They should be held to the same standards as anyone else, encouraged to modify their behavior and more closely adhere to general common decency towards other people, or kicked out of their role within the organization.

Because, ultimately, they're a cancer. It's just a question of how long before it metastasizes. And idealogical purity is no balm for failing to be a good person.

PS: Which isn't to say that one can't pursue just causes. Just make sure your own house is in order before throwing rocks.

[MauranKilom]

This is really tricky, because sincere and respectful words by one party can still be perceived as hurtful by another. Especially in this issue, there is frequently no middle ground where both parties are happy.

I mean, it's kind of ironic: Calling someone an asshole is undoubtedly rude and aggressive (even when done in good faith). And you said that it's not only ok but necessary when you perceive someone as an asshole. But above you complained exactly about "being rude/aggressive in service of justice". So... which is it?

[ethbro]

Forest, trees. You should call both conservative and liberal assholes assholes.

[MauranKilom]

I did not mean this in the sense of political parties but parties on different "sides" of the pronoun issue at hand.

[ethbro]

I feel it extends the same way. Allegiance is not... politeness and decency.

[skrebbel]

FYI, I think that your comment has merit, but I simply can't bring myself to upvote comments that ask to be downvoted.