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by parsnips 2453 days ago
These are going to occur anyway (along with freezing permafrost, lowering sea levels, stable weather patterns). These are ordinary problems that we adapt to.

The problem I'm talking about is the idea that these are preventable. They're not. It's an imaginary problem. The US , for example, can _eliminate_ CO2 production and those things are still going to happen. The imaginary problem is that climate change is a problem to solve.
2 comments
ctrl-j 2453 days ago
> These are going to occur anyway

How on earth do you know that?

> These are ordinary problems that we adapt to.

You make it sound like we've been through this before.. When?

> The US , for example, can _eliminate_ CO2 production and those things are still going to happen.

So, we cranked up the emissions, and these things just RANDOMLY started happening at the same time? Even though our environmental models and knowledge of physics agree with our observations??

Like.. it's just MAGIC or something? What is causing it if it's not CO2?

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parsnips 2453 days ago
Climate is not static.

For example permafrost thaw - we have no idea how widespread it is. The areas we do observe have a valid, natural explanation for thaw via gas cavities. Some of these cavities get enlarged thermal-erosional piping, which can expand the cavity due to seasonal temperature changes, which can make the cavity large enough prevent re-freeze.

This isn't magic. It's science.

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ctrl-j 2453 days ago
Neither is my car, but something has to happen to make it move.

You addressed none of my questions. What, in your opinion, is the trigger for the shift?

Edit: You edited in the part about permafrost. I did some quick googling because I had never heard of the causal link of gas cavities causing the melt. I've only seen the papers on the melt causing gas to escape which then exposes underground cavities... Still can't find any sources on cavities causing surface temperature to rise - care to share some sources? That sounds interesting!

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goda90 2453 days ago
The thing to worry about is the rate of change. I'm a fan of the visualization that XKCD did here: https://xkcd.com/1732/ When the rate of change is too fast, life struggles to adapt. Feedback loops are so tight that it accelerates even more. For instance, a slow permafrost melt means some trees die and rot, but new ones grow to replace them at similar rates. A fast permafrost melt means all the trees die and rot quickly. Their carbon is added to the atmosphere. The other plants and animals that depended on them lose all their habitat.

Think of climate like a car going 100 MPH. Climate change is changing the speed of the car. Do you want to be in a car that goes from 100 to 0 in 0.5 seconds, or in 20 seconds? The climate is changing quickly and we don't even have proper seat belts for everyone.

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xscott 2452 days ago
That xkcd comic should go back 400,000 years instead of just 20,000.
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goda90 2452 days ago
Eh, it's really about the relevance of temperature fluctuation to civilization. Sure humans existed earlier, but we know less about their relationship with the world around them the further back we look.
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excessive 2447 days ago
That might be what it was about, but it could've been about more. I don't think anyone claims humans were significant to CO2 or temperature more than 200 years ago, why go before that to 20,000 years and stop there?
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