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by UIZealot 2470 days ago
> You don't think teaching Chinese in Mandarin (5% first language) rather than Cantonese (90% first language) or trying to introduce national education into the curriculum is assimilation?

No I do not. That's just what you teach to your citizens. When the US took over Puerto Rico, kids there damn well learned English, the American history, the national anthem, and the star spangled banner in school. Do you call that assimilation? Or is that OK because it's the US that did it?
2 comments
partialrecall 2470 days ago
> "When the US took over Puerto Rico, kids there damn well learned English, the American history, the national anthem, and the star spangled banner in school. Do you call that assimilation?"

If that's not assimilation, then I have no clue what the term means.

> "Or is that OK because it's the US that did it? "

If your argument relies on all Americans being hypocritical sycophants of the American government, it's a bad argument. Criticism of America is mainstream in America. One can be American and be critical of the American government, just as one can be Chinese and be critical of the Chinese government. In fact there is ample reason for both to be critical of both.

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UIZealot 2470 days ago
Call it assimilation if you want. My point is that it's what all governments will do under the situation. The fact that China did not push through national education forcibly shows that it's willing to forgo even that minimum amount of "assimilation". It has actually been a model of hands-off administration.

EDIT: Actually do not call it assimilation. Learning Mandarin as a shared language does not mean eradicating Cantonese, and most Hongkongers are ethnic Chinese and share much of the same culture, there's nothing to assimilate.

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manhuntingoyu 2470 days ago
No. That is the exact definition of assimilation.

Wiki: Cultural assimilation is the process in which a minority group or culture comes to resemble a dominant group[1] or assume the values, behaviors, and beliefs of another group.

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UIZealot 2470 days ago
No it is not assimilation. See my edit.
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banabr 2470 days ago
> Mandarin as a shared language does not mean eradicating Cantonese

Mandarin is a dialect, just like Cantonese.

China has been actively trying to eradicate Cantonese but mainly backfired. In Guangdong, no less.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou_Television_Cantone...

So yes, it is assimilation when you force your dialect on others.

> most Hongkongers are ethnic Chinese and share much of the same cultuRe

I beg to differ. Mao destroyed a lot of cultural relics during the Cultural Revolution. Things that used to be wide spread such as idol worshiping is no longer seen in China and only in Hong Kong. Hong Kong resembles more of the traditional China culture than China does today.

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UIZealot 2470 days ago
An attempt to deemphasize Cantonese in Guangdong does not constitute eradication.

Mandarin in Hong Kong as far as I know would've been strictly in addition to, not instead of Cantonese, much like learning English in Quebec.

So again, not assimilation.

> Mao destroyed a lot of cultural relics during the Cultural Revolution.

The relics may have been destroyed, but (most of) the people lived, some still living. Culture doesn't die with the relics, it lives with the people.

> Things that used to be wide spread such as idol worshiping is no longer seen in China

It's certainly less wide spread now, especially in big cities. But it's still common in small towns and villages. Dive deeper next time you visit China.

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partialrecall 2470 days ago
Oh yeah, the Chinese government is the model of restraint.

Give me a break dude. Are you free to criticize your government or not? I freely criticize mine, and you should do the same.

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UIZealot 2470 days ago
The Chinese government certainly has a lot to improve when it comes to how it governs the people of mainland China.

But we are talking about Hong Kong here. And it has been a model of restraint here, if you are being honest with yourself.

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bsznjyewgd 2470 days ago
We are talking about the same Hong Kong in which sellers of questionable books were disappeared to the mainland, apparently without the knowledge of the HK government.
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banabr 2470 days ago
If it is a model of restraint, what would be your definition of unrestrained. It seems like you would have a different way of handling the situation? Would love to hear it.
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joyeuse6701 2470 days ago
That is assimilation I think by definition, without the value judgment. The question is whether or not Puerto Rico wanted it and if it was forced.

Puerto Rico is a poor example, especially since they seem to want to be inducted into the U.S. officially as a state! Hong Kong does not seem to share the same sentiment with Beijing.

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UIZealot 2464 days ago
Since you're revisiting this thread. I will try to clarify the issue.

No it is not. It's only assimilation if you aim to wipe out the local language and culture and replace them with your own.

So it's not assimilation in either case, Puerto Rico or Hong Kong, as the US did not attempt to eradicate Spanish, nor is China trying to eradicate Cantonese.

People who accuse China of assimilation are surely smart enough to know the difference. The thing is, they have already made up their minds, China is evil no matter what it does.

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Leary 2469 days ago
"In 1914, the Puerto Rican House of Delegates voted unanimously in favor of independence from the United States, but this was rejected by the U.S. Congress as "unconstitutional" " [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico

History does tend to repeat itself, doesn't it.

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joyeuse6701 2466 days ago
It sure does, but not everything is black and white...[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_R...

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