[theprotocol]

I've been a reader of health and nutritional science for many years. Yes, I researched vitamin K2 before taking it. No, I am not into random bro-science. I am highly objective and have been able to achieve good results with various nutritional interventions, for several deficiency-related conditions.

The reason I started taking it was not dental plaque, but because my diet had few sources of vitamin K2 (due to diagnosed digestive issues) and the scientific consensus was that it is a valuable nutrient that occurs in diets correlated with reduced cardiac and other disease. I understand that correlation is not causation, but it is plausible that adding something missing in my diet could produce a benefit, and my mission was to correct deficiencies. It is, after all, a nutrient found in common foods.

I had read the claims about its effects on plaque incidentally to my research, but did not consider them factual because this effect had not been studied to my knowledge.

Several hours after taking K2, my teeth would start to feel a bit smoother. About a week and a half later, bits of plaque would start coming off my teeth when I brushed them. To answer your question, you can't not notice it. It's a chunk of solid white gunk that I couldn't previously remove from my teeth that has now become detached.

After a year or so I neglected supplementation with vitamin K2. The plaque eventually returned, albeit very slowly. Upon resuming vitamin K2, it would again dissolve.

I understand your skepticism with regard to n=1 vs. scientific theory, but I am a pragmatic person. I have been able to repeat this, and I can confirm it works for me. To put theory over practice when the reality of it stared me in the face would have been fallacious.

[amluto]

I can falsify your description just by reading it. Plaque is a soft goo. You’re probably describing tartar, aka calculus.

Maybe vitamin K2 helps you remove tartar. Maybe it doesn’t. Go to the dentist regardless — the dentist is about a lot more than removing tartar.

[theprotocol]

- Indeed, it's tartar. I admit to having used the term loosely in my writing, because tartar is hardened plaque.

- Nowhere have I said I never went to the dentist. I just have no need to go for cleaning every 5-6 months anymore, whereas I used to be obligated because the tartar was so bad. Whenever I do go for a checkup, the dentist confirms there is no tartar. When I stopped needing cleaning he asked me what I had changed, and I mentioned vitamin K2. He wasn't aware of its dental benefits, but has since looked it up so he knows what I've been doing.

edit: Fixed for accuracy. Fine, I accept that plaque has not yet become tartar. You are 100% correct with regard to the semantical accuracy of my usage of the word "plaque" instead of tartar, but you have not falsified anything.

edit #2: Removed unnecessarily defensive parts.

[roel_v]

Oh I'm not skeptical, I don't know anything about this - I asked to learn if you had any more advise when it comes to buying the product, what to look out for, what to combine it with or not, and how to 'measure' or at least tell if it works.

[theprotocol]

I understand. I think if you or someone else were skeptical, they'd probably be right to be. But you'd be surprised how far you can get using heuristics and experimentation with low-risk nutritional products to determine if they are beneficial or not, although any results achieved this way are understandably not very convincing to an external observer.

I think a good heuristic is if something is a very common nutritional element, then it's likely safe. Vitamin K2 in its MK-4 form is found in the cheese and meat products produced by grass-fed animals (think Netherlands, France...), while its MK-7 form can be found in certain plant-based products fermented with B. subtilis (Natto). People eat high-K2 diets around the world. It was certainly not going to kill me to try it out at a dose not exceeding what you can get from food (e.g. Natto can have 1000mcg of K2 MK-7 in a single serving!).

I also try not to take most supplements every day, because the idea is simply to top off levels of things I'm deficient in, plus to give the body some time to eliminate the supplement after using it, which reduces toxicity risks even further (turnover is an important factor), and also reduces the risks of forming a dependency (for example, I don't take taurine supplements every day, in case the body's own taurine production would get suppressed).

edit: "what to combine it with or not,"

It complements vitamin D, magnesium and calcium. I discuss this briefly in another post in this comment tree.

[roel_v]

While I don't 'believe' every bit of bro-science I hear (as in, take all claims at face value), let's just say that I'm not very worried about overdosing most supplements and I rather try things out than spending hours upon hours reading about things I don't really understand anyway, and of which there is no scientific consensus :) Just to say, no need to convince me to try something like this :)

I just ordered a combined MK-4/MK-7 supplement, and added some vitamin D3 as well as it seems to be a good combination, so fingers crossed that I can tell my dentist the next time I go how well it works :) (for years she's been lecturing me time and time again how I should brush better, despite brushing at least 2 times a day and flossing consistently. I think she just doesn't believe me that I actually do those things).

[sunstone]

I've a similar result with gout and vitamin D (2000iu per day). Works for me might not work for you.

[agumonkey]

what's the process at play between K2 and plaque ?

[theprotocol]

I'm not aware of any research that establishes how it affects dental plaque, but there is research that suggests it dissolves arterial plaque, which is, in part, made of calcium (hence the cardiac calficiation score), and there is sufficient information overall to formulate a hypothesis on why it would work for dental plaque.

The general effect of vitamin K2 is connected with vitamin D, calcium and magnesium. Vitamin D upregulates calcium utilization, and has been shown to cause conditions of excess calcium e.g. hypercalcemia when cofactors are not present (e.g. magnesium or vitamin K2 deficiency).

While magnesium has a modulating effect on calcium absorption and utilization, vitamin K2 has a stronger effect whereby it causes calcium to be pulled out of inappropriate places (arteries, and apparently teeth) and moved towards appropriate places (bone and other tissues).

Dental tartar typically consists of biofilms made in part with calcium that shield the bacteria from the immune system (consider the term "dental calculus," which has the connotation of calcification). Presumably, vitamin K2 pulls the calcium from the biofilm, which causes it to collapse.