[silvat]

You're characterization of these people simply as deadbeats trying to avoid responsibility is both extremely insensitive and simple minded. How deep a person can gets caught up in addiction is usually a reflection of their emotional health. They're not trying to escape responsibility, they're trying to escape being alive.

[lawnchair_larry]

We’re saying the same thing. I am not concerned with being sensitive, sorry. Facts don’t care about feelings. I think this mentality that we can’t speak the truth out of fear that we’ll hurt their feelings, and encouraging a victim mentality only makes things worse.

Recognizing that you are a deadbeat, and deciding that you don’t want to be is the only way to even begin recovery. I’ve seen this up close. Anyone who has any experience helping addicts will tell you the same thing. That’s why forced treatment doesn’t work and will never work.

Trust me, you’ll look at this differently after you have pulled family members out of crack houses that you thought only existed like that in the movies, had them steal your motorcycle and sell it for drugs, had them give your address to their crackhead friends where your wife and kids sleep, etc. Some of us are way past worrying about hurt feelings.

And this isn’t something that happens with weed users at all, which is why I don’t think people really understand what it means to be a drug addict when they mention weed. There is just no comparison.

[dijksterhuis]

I agree with what you’re saying, factually. I completely disagree with the way you’re saying it unfortunately.

The important point to remember is that addicts already punish themselves waaaaaaaaay more than anyone in the real world ever could.

Like, in my own experience, it’s like having a spade in my head that constantly smashes me in my face me every few minutes. It’s absolutely punishing.

I genuinely thought I was one of the worst human beings alive.

Referring to them as deadbeats is not the right way to go because it:

a) reinforces those punishing beliefs even more

b) reinforces the isolation and separation, which is a key element in the problem

c) provides an excuse to keep going through stereotypes and stigma (“once an addict, always an addict” etc.)

d) addicts, by our very nature, fight. Pushing an addict is like poking an angry snake. It doesn’t help anyone. Playing the snake calming music does though (ie being nice).

Edit:

One of the reasons I’m still clean is because of the guilt and shame I felt about how badly I treated people. People who were genuinely very nice to me. It takes time to see it, but it’s very important to be kind and to not judge. It’s tough, especially when an addict hurts someone so much and so often.

Of course what you’ve been through sounds like hell. And Addiction doesn’t just affect the individual. It affects everyone around them, unfortunately.

[lawnchair_larry]

To be clear, are you saying nobody is a deadbeat? And anyone avoiding responsibility is a victim of something? Some might be, but 100% are? I find this view of the world very naive.

Weed isn’t the reason that someone isn’t taking care of their wife and kids. There could be many reasons, perhaps some legitimate and some not so legitimate. But the reason is never that the weed got a hold of them like people unfamiliar with it seem to think. It just doesn’t have that effect. Some drugs do, though.

Edit:

BTW, although my connection to the situation was quite stressful, I would not call what I went through hell compared to what his (now ex) wife and kids went through. But yes, the blast radius is large there. And the people who got the worst of it were the compassionate ones. They’re so easily manipulated, and the addicts know that.

Now that I think about it, the individual who helped him and his family the most (and who is currently not speaking to him) is actually one of the biggest weed users I alluded to earlier. That guy gets more done in a day before most people even get out of bed.

So yeah, I just can’t take people seriously when they talk about victims of weed addiction, especially when their opinions are formed based on that pothead from high school that didn’t go anywhere. It’s comical sounding if you have any real experience or understanding of these issues.

[dijksterhuis]

Not at all. I was well on my way as a deadbeat before this recovery I’m now in. My point was that being referred to as a deadbeat would incite those 4 points above in varying forms and make me much less willing to seek help.

And no. I’m not a victim of any massive trauma (I’m guessing that’s what you mean), came from a decent enough middle class family. So not all addicts are a victim of anything - except the disease.

And, to be clear, whilst I was avoiding responsibility throughout active addiction, I was avoiding reality far more. That is by far the bigger problem.

Weed can totally be the reason why someone doesn’t look after their wife and kids. I’ve caused the exact same problems in my own life! Just because _most_ people can smoke weed fine, doesn’t mean some people don’t completely screw up their lives with it.

Weed is like the beer of the drugs world. An alcoholic will still ruin lives even if they can only drink beer. It’s what I’ve done!

FYI, hash was one of my main drugs of choice (alongside cocaine and alcohol).

...

So this is probably most important thing for anyone related/involved to/with an addict to understand. And I actually came back to add this to the above when I started rethinking about what you said:

SET BOUNDARIES/LIMITS, DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN DRAMA AND DO NOT WAIVER.

Protect yourself first. Then be compassionate/helpful (not overflowing with sympathy, that’s not compassion) when it is appropriate.

Getting involved in my drama is like crack for me. “Attention from other people, yeeesssssss!!!”

An addict rarely asks for help honestly. When it happens (honestly), there’s always something different about how I would be asking. It’s at those moments when I was totally desperate that the magic could happen.

It doesn’t always work out, unfortunately. But they are the only opportunities where I’d be willing listen to other people and maybe, just maybe, be willing to change.

And those moments are where the compassion pays absolute dividends.

At least that’s my experience.

Patience, firm and consistent boundaries, and then compassion as and when applicable.

...

On a personal note, the whole thing sounds super rough. Maybe not hell, but still rough.

It’s a horrible disease to live with - as an addict and as someone who cares about an addict.

My thoughts are with yourself, your extended family and the husband.

[dijksterhuis]

I really wanted wanted to reply to the parent comment too, but you’ve done a better job than I ever could. Thank you.