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by tooop 2490 days ago
Read the 4th point fully.

> The information below is concerned with those EU citizens who arrive in the UK after exit, not those residing here before the UK withdraws from the EU.

1 comments

And my question is: at the border, which document does an EU citizen present to distinguish between those two cases?
None, that's why this whole thing is a farce. Once you register for the Settlement Scheme you do get an email confirming that you did, that's all. But you don't legally have to apply for it until next year anyway, so you might have the full legal right to reside in the UK and not have any document to prove it.
A tiny minority of those that fall under the settled status scheme (non-EU family members of EU citizens) may possess a physical biometric card. The overwhelming majority have no document to present.
From https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

"If your application is successful, a letter will be emailed to you confirming your settled or pre-settled status. The letter you get from the Home Office which confirms your status will include a link to an online service. You can use this service to view and prove your status."

Let me get this straight, your ability to re-enter the UK to be with your family depends on a URL printed on a piece of paper?
No, a URL in an emailed letter.

This is more about proving your status to employers and such. Border agents will, presumably, be able to see your status electronically through their own system.

Who says EU citizens will need a visa to enter the country?
EU citizens will almost certainly not need a visa to visit the UK, no matter what the final circumstances of Brexit.

However, like other countries that do not need a visa to visit the UK, border agents could still refuse entry if they believe (for example) you intend to seek work rather than just visit.

I.e. in practice there won't be any issue until they have proper procedures and documentation in place.
Have they suggested that EU citizens would need a visa to enter the UK?

People would have a permanent residence certificate will have something to show.

Settlement Scheme is a permanent residence certificate(at least the email I got from the Home Office says so) and yet no certificate can actually be obtained from the home office for this. The border agent can go on gov.uk website and check I guess?
I am talking about the existing permanent resident status under EU law.

But the important point is the question I asked: have they suggested that a visa will be required to enter the country?

My understanding is that visa-free travel will continue so it should not really matter whether you can prove status.

>>But the important point is the question I asked: have they suggested that a visa will be required to enter the country?

They haven't. They are just saying that the free movement will end, meaning that as an EU citizen you don't have the automatic right to enter the UK....but no alternative was offered. EU citizens are inelligable for all UK visas right now anyway, because they are specifically worded in such a way and would need to be changed.

>>I am talking about the existing permanent resident status under EU law.

And this might be strange to some, but you can be totally elligable for the full settled status but not for the permanent residence card(I was in this exact situation - I have lived in the UK for 8 years, but the first 4 "don't count" towards the permanent residence status because I was a student without private health insurance(which was only added as a requirement after I started my studies) - but I still got the full Settled Status because that doesn't care why you were here, only if you lived here 5 years or more).

>>My understanding is that visa-free travel will continue so it should not really matter whether you can prove status.

Which again is an issue, because it might mean that legally you don't have the right to be here at all, it's just that the border controls are letting it slide for a while until some other system is put in place. Which causes a whole set of other issues, like this time not counting towards any citizenship application(or making it impossible in the first place, since you are here "illegally"), being unable to rent a place or use the NHS.

> student without private health insurance(which was only added as a requirement after I started my studies)

As I understand it, that was always a requirement due to the wording of the treaties (or regulations / directives).

It is just that UK government hadn't previously highlighted that they viewed NHS entitlement as not counting as "medical insurance".

There is supposed to be an ongoing dispute with the Commission over this point.

See here and links from it: https://www.freemovement.org.uk/comprehensive-sickness-insur...

"free movement" means something much deeper than visa-free travel.

Anyway, I think this is a storm in a teacup. In the circumstances EU citizens woild just be waved in as they are now until the dust settles and proper procedures are in place.

That wouldn't mean EU citizens would be here illegally either.

EU settlement scheme says that you need to present the document you used to obtain the residence through the settlement scheme.
School, doctor, home, job, taxes etc. that should leave a "paper" trail that can be looked up by officials.
There is no system for doing this, and I would not expect passport officials to be able to look up tax and medical records at the point of entry!
> I would not expect passport officials to be able to look up tax and medical records at the point of entry

Then you’ll be clearly surprised if you knew what all they can access crossing the border.

Do you have a citation for the claim that border agents can access tax or medical records?
Apologies for the slow response, was trying to find a source, but haven’t found one.

My comment was based on personal experience of going through secondary inspection with border agents in various countries. All of the FVEY countries share a frightening amount of information with each other’s border agents. I’m not specifically claiming they have medical records, but literally anything that is in a government database (I’m not being hyperbolic there, just prefer not to be specific as to what I’ve been shown on their screen that I felt they had no right to know) is accessible to them if the agent wants and knows how.

Seconding the request for info about this.