[hartror]

May I suggest a couple of links to some in depth analysis of these studies by scientists in a form the layman can understand? Links about researchers stealing money from their university do not add to your cause as it has no bearing on whether or not a particular immunizations are more dangerous than the disease they prevent.

Something along the lines of this but from the opposing viewpoint: http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/more-ev...

And to address your concerns re Thimerosal. Apart from the fact the general scientific consensus is it isn't dangerous it was removed from almost all vaccines around 2001. For more information: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/Questions...

[davidj]

Basically the first paper states, from what I can understand, "Some people are born with a genetic defect in their cells, specifically in the mitochondria part of the cell. When these people are injected with Thimerosal, they get autism. Others don't." My proposed solution: Check to see if the kid has this genetic defect, and if so, don't inject them with mercury, inject them with the mercury free vaccine and they will be fine.

I'm not anti-vaccine at all, just anti-mercury in the vaccine. Also they did not remove Thimerosal from vaccines. In fact, the swine flu shot had Thimersal and if you remember, children and pregnant women were encourage to take it first. This caused a 700% increase in miscarriages. http://hubpages.com/hub/thirmerosal_in_vaccines

[hartror]

Also when Thimerosal was removed from most of the vaccines in 2001 it had no affect on Autism rates. This was pretty much the last nail in the coffin for that hypothesis, yet the meme continues.

[ceejayoz]

I figure it's like the "Bill Gates will send you $20 for every person you forward this to" chain e-mails.

[originalgeek]

From 2007:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.881:

(5) Considerable progress has been made in reducing mercury exposures from childhood vaccines, yet 8 years after the July 1999 statement, thimerosal remains in several nonroutinely administered childhood vaccines and many pediatric and adult influenza vaccines.

(6) There is no law or regulation to prohibit the reintroduction of thimerosal into any products from which it has been removed, leaving open the possibility that it may be reintroduced at some point in the future in new vaccines or vaccines from which it has already been removed.

[hartror]

So pretty much what you are saying is backing up what I have said. If thimerosal and other mercury based were responsible for autism then we should see a drop in diagnosis rates relative to the decrease in the use of thimerosal.

As there has been none there is no like, causal or otherwise.

But please keep going, this is almost as fun as playing Battlefield . . .

[originalgeek]

Let me translate for you. It says there was no law forbidding the use of Thimerosal, and also it says plainly that Congress found in 2007 that some vaccines still contained it. Thus, your statement that it was "eliminated in 2001" is false.

[hartror]

Continue replying to a cowards throw away account? Sure why not it is Friday night and I have a beer in hand.

Perhaps go back and read my comment you grossly misquoted [1] where I say "removed from most vaccines" if you are going to try to quote me at least do it right.

You should read the quote you posted then revise what correlation and causation mean in respect to science and biology in particular.

What you quoted explicitly states "thimerosal remains in several nonroutinely administered childhood vaccines". Note it says nonroutinely, which I will translate for you means not often. So even if only a fraction of the routinely used childhood vaccines had thimerosal removed in the past decade (and it sounds from your quote that none of the routinely ones did have it still in there in 07) we would see a corresponding drop in autism diagnosis rates.

We haven't.

Ball is in your court cowardly sir if you really believe in what you say you'll use your real account, no one is left on this thread to downvote you.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2073702 (Note i posted that a day ago and HN lock comment editing after a short period of time just in case you are wondering).

[davidj]

Thimerosal may have been removed from vaccines in 2001/2003, but because it was used as a preservative, vaccines made before then were not taken off the shelf and recalled and still used! According to this link below some up until 2007. Then, the swine flu had Thimerosal which was given to children as well.

"One point that was repeatedly stated was that except for the flu shot, all vaccines that have been offered to parents since 2003 have been thimerosal free. This is not the case.

Because parents in the autism community are very concerned about the prospect of their children getting mercury in their vaccines, many of them routinely ask to see the packaging before their child gets a shot. What some parents are finding is that vaccines with the full 25 micrograms of mercury are still being distributed in doctors offices, some with an expiration date of 2007."

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2005/08/still-finding...

[hartror]

So assuming that is relevant (I don't doubt some doctor still had medicines on the shelf in 2005 (date on post) from 2001 but at what rates your comment does not state) around now we should be already seeing a large drop in autism rates since the shelf life of the older medicines has expired? As there has not been a corresponding drop at all I hold that the autism caused by mercury in vaccines lobby is barking up the wrong tree.

Edit. didn't downvote you btw, did up vote after the downvote as your comment is fair and contributes to the debate. :(

[davidj]

The real question is, red pill or blue? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps

[hartror]

Some of the H1N1 vaccines contained Thimerosal none of them intended for pregnant women or children.

Also the figure of 700% increase in miscarriages alone doesn't actually prove anything on its own, a virulent disease was also abroad at the time. A detailed study of the medical histories of the women who had miscarriages during 08/09/10 would be needed to establish what the cause of the increase was (and I hope is being done?).

[neworbit]

Incorrect. The H1N1 vaccine given to children and pregnant women explicitly did not have Thimerosal due to exactly this sort of concern.

[RP_Joe]

Read the inserts. There on the net. It contains Themerosal.

[neworbit]

You are not paying attention. The single-dose versions that were targeted at administration to children explicitly do not. The nasal inhalation version that was targeted for pregnant women explicitly does not. The multi-dose vials are the ones that contain Thimerosal, and those are explicitly NOT for pregnant women nor young children.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/expert.q.a/11/02/h1n1.thimero...

[bm98]

You are incorrect: In the US, two 2009 H1N1 vaccines distributed in multi-dose vials were approved for children >= 6 months. See:

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/dosage.htm#table1

[eitally]

This is correct. And we had it administered to our then 14mo old son. He's fine.

Hooray for meaningless anecdotes!

[RP_Joe]

"Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is not used in the manufacturing process for the single dose presentations; therefore these products contain no preservative. The multi-dose presentation contains thimerosal, added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 mcg of mercury. " From: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines....