[qwsxyh]

> Michael Winterhoff’s Deutschland Verdummt claims that German children today “have no tolerance for frustration, and they avoid all exertion.” By the time they graduate, half of them still “have the psyche of a small child.” The author of eight previous books on childhood development, Winterhoff’s primary concern is that children today have become “tyrants.” They don’t know proper boundaries; they have not been taught how to submit to parental and social authority. And this, Winterhoff says, is entirely the fault of parents themselves. Beginning in the 1990s, they have treated their children like friends and partners instead of acting like authority figures and moral guides, preferring to allow children the freedom to develop and move at their own pace instead of submitting to the adult order of things.

Old man yells at cloud.

[maze-le]

This trope never gets old it seems...

>> “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

― Socrates

[bhaak]

It also gets never old to tell that this quote is most likely not from Socrates. But you know that already, don't you?

What we know from Socrates, this doesn't sound like something he would have said.

Although, having done no writings of his own, we have two main sources for his life.

But then again, Plato often put his own words into Socrates' mouth and this is something Plato could have said. :-)

[chalst]

Cf. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

[bhaak]

Thank you. I didn't know we know the actual source.

I only knew of some leads back to the 50s or 60s.

[Nasrudith]

Plus there is "professional speech" vs off the cuff. "Please pass the salt. - Barrack Obama" would probably technically be an accurate quote even if it wasn't documented.

There were accounts of cringeworthy even for the day dressing up in a dirty short cloak in immitation of Spartans.

[mcguire]

"But then again, Plato often put his own words into Socrates' mouth and this is something Plato could have said. :-)"

Socrates is a bizarre joke invented by Plato and a few of his friends while drinking in Athens one night. Plato just went all L. Ron Hubbard on it.

[orbifold]

Except this is a made up quote.

[martin_a]

Look up the Hagakure, even there's a part about how "the youth of today" is lacking basic discipline etc.

[number6]

It is around so long, that it accumulated some legitimacy of it's own

[raxxorrax]

You can probably release this book every 30 years or so and have a bot replace contemporary parts and jargon.

He says that the development of children is negatively affected by adults, who lack authority by elevating children to their level. Information technology had further enabled children to fortify this power imbalance.

Maybe he has a point, but as a psychologist for children you probably get a warped image after a while. Job hazard probably.

He recommends adults to take walks in the park for example to get distance and perspective from the horrible stuff younger people post online. That can align with my wishes to ban all politicians from Twitter at least.

But I think it should be pretty controversial to say that younger people form some kind of tyranny while keeping demographics in Germany in mind. Well, easier to take advantage of people that believe you a fool.

Still, younger people are the end of civilization as we know it, as is tradition. I believe there never was a metric or any empirical evidence but it might just be one of these timeless classics people seem to love. Maybe there is a hint of truth in a way that people drawn to these stories do indeed feel overtaxed.

[brazzy]

> You can probably release this book every 30 years or so and have a bot replace contemporary parts and jargon.

This specific author has alread done that every 2 years or so for the last 10 years...

[watwut]

It is perfectly possible for younger generation to be less capable in something, to be more violent then previous generation and so on. And these developments can be objectively measured too.

Kids who are being raised in communism are bound to behave differently then the ones who are being raised for capitalism/democracy. For that matter, generation that grew pre-WWII and during it was raised completely differently and towards different values too - especially in Germany. They were in fact taught to obey much more. You was not in fact supposed to think for yourself, while in todays world it is more of an advantage.

The real question is how much of this complain is "real" and how much is just politics to push for changes author would like. And how much of what is real change is bad and how much is actually adaptation to more competitive more free world.

[C1sc0cat]

"not been taught how to submit" And a bet he wrote that unironically.

I remember a documentary on Berlin and Berlinners have a slang term there that basically means "you have been controlled" when one of the many petty bureaucrats, pulls you up over some trivial infraction

[epaga]

You may be mistaking "kontrolliert werden" for "being controlled" when it actually means "being checked".

Reminds me of when American friends were SHOCKED by a political poster that quipped "Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser" - they thought it meant "Trust is good, control is better", but it actually means "Trust is good, but checking things is better"

[arethuza]

So "Trust, but verify" - which really is an old Russian proverb:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify

[jotm]

Wait until they hear the German national anthem (well, the first verse) :D

[jcbrand]

I assume you're referring to "Deutschland über alles" (Germany over everything).

It's no longer the first verse due to the Nazi history, but it doesn't come from that time.

It actually comes from the mid 1800s (IIRC) when Germany didn't exist as a unified state. People lived in many different kingdoms and principalities and many yearned for a German state.

The anthem comes from this time and this line is supposed to mean that Germany is preferable to the various smaller states of that time.

Source: "Germany, memories of a nation" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23113270-germany

[jotm]

Yes, yes, I got that explanation.

But the first time a foreigner hears it, it sounds a lot like "Germany over everyone in the world", which can carry the implication :P

[raverbashing]

This phrase probably uses the verb kontrollieren, which means check/control/examine

It's not about petty bureaucrats and trivial infractions, it usually is referring to someone getting checked on the subway for tickets - and sometimes not having the proper ticket (or maaaaaybe being asked for id due to anti-social behaviour)

[C1sc0cat]

Or being one of those "brown" Germans

[raverbashing]

Are you talking from experience?

On the u-bahn everybody is checked. As for anti-social behaviour, it's usually the ones with certain clothing, possibly depicting some symbols or personal appearance that are often targeted.

[swebs]

I wonder if he actually used those words, or if the quote was originally in German and the translator took some creative liberties.

[remarkEon]

>Old man yells at cloud.

Oh please. I feel like reading old books these days is some invitation for criticism about how "the youths" are the problem.