Ask YC: Server Administration?

[nextmoveone]

I've never had to set-up my own server before, thanks to hosting providers (like media temple / dreamhost / etc).

I recently realized I am deficient in that area and would like learn the basics, enough so I could (hypothetically) buy a slice from slicehost and set it up.

Does anyone have any good primers/online tutorials?

[mstefff]

First, I'd recommend using a debian-based distro like Ubuntu. From my experience, it is much easier to use and configure, and the amount of tutorials, etc, available for it is overwhelming.

[j2d2]

I just setup a vps with linode.com two days ago and chose ubuntu. It's been fairly trivial to administer remotely, without x. I haven't had to take on the role of an SA anytime recently, but it couldn't be much easier than to work with ubuntu so far.

[mk]

I agree that it is easier to use and configure a debian-based distro, but I would add that if you really want to learn Linux intimately you should check out Gentoo. The Gentoo docs are really good and will take you through the setup step by step. By the end of it you will have configured and compiled your own kernel and have familiarity with a lot of the /etc config files. Of course things may not work out the first couple of times and you may just get so frustrated you want to give up.

[SwellJoe]

The Gentoo documentation is absolutely astonishingly great. But it's the only aspect of the system that I consider good. Everything else is a mess.

Gentoo feels like someone sat down to a Debian or CentOS system, used it for a while, and said, "You know, I really like it when I have to compile stuff from scratch, and make all of my own decisions about options and stuff and what tools to use, even though I have no idea what the difference is between various init systems, FTP servers, versions of Apache, configuration tools, etc. I don't like how easy and quick installing software from apt-get or yum is, or how it all seems to Just Work when it's done. I know, I'll borrow some ideas from FreeBSD's far more complicated to use and error-prone package management tools, and make a whole new Linux distribution that requires significantly more time and effort to use! It'll be awesome!" And a billion and one nerds with too much time on their hands saw it, loved it, and climbed right on board.

I'm sure I'll be voted down for this, as Gentoo has rabid fans, but I'm always stunned by how effectively the community markets Gentoo to new Linux users, and what an astonishingly bad experience it provides to those new users. Encouraging learning is wonderful, but foisting a seriously challenging learning experience on to users while calling it an "easy to use" Linux distribution is doing them, and Linux in general, a grave disservice. Gentoo is not easy to use, and it is extremely easy to break.

[j2d2]

I wouldn't recommend gentoo in a hosting environment until you're comfortable. I know a few people who completely hosed gentoo boxes during the learning phase.

[SwellJoe]

Any popular distro with good package management and a long lifecycle is fine.

Of course, that narrows it down to Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, and CentOS. But all of those are absolutely fantastic in current versions (though I generally like Debian better on servers than Ubuntu--I just don't think the changes they've made make it a better system).

[comatose_kid]

Ubuntu server is cool (I use it on my machine). Also, the book Hardening Linux is good for the security side of things. I found online references to be best for setting up individual packages.

[mh77]

Slicehost has a few good articles: http://articles.slicehost.com/

I have used them for setting up my own slice and it worked out really well.

[kashif]

Yup slicehost articles are really good.

[rickd]

I'm also going to echo this- I've done only a bit of playing around with Ubuntu, but with mediatemple downtime issues I was having (grid service is not quite what they advertise) I decided to jump in and get a slice about 2 months ago.

I couldn't be happier. The tutorials (especially the ones for Ubuntu) are fantastic, and setting up your server and security with shorewall/etc couldn't be more painless. I probably took only an hour and had apache/php/mysql and rails up and running securely.

Major points to slicehost for the high quality walkthroughs- and for 20 bucks a month, it's more than worth it to just get a slice and jump in. That's something I'd highly recommend (No, i don't work for them, I'm just very happy!)

[tricky]

I'd like to second the recommendation for slicehost. Great, honest service and the tutorials are good even for those of us who think we know what we're doing.

[maryrosecook]

Sign up for Slicehost and work through the articles. They will take you, step by step, from a new slice to a hosted application. Two months ago, I was in the same position you are. I now have three slices all running apps. I have learnt about load balancing, database administration and tuning, web server configuration, the inner workings of Linux, scheduling, bash...

At times, system administration will make you want to kill yourself, but it's worth learning. Building your own slice is a great way to start.

[rcoder]

There's really no substitute for setting up a system that you can break without negative consequences. Also, putting a public server for which you have root access out on the Internet entails a degree of public responsibility: if your box gets 0wned and becomes a DDoS attack node or spambot, it's your fault. (I say this coming from the POV of someone who had their first "real" server cracked wide open within 90 days of putting it online due to an OpenSSH remote exploit many years ago.)

If you haven't already done so, download an install ISO for Debian/Ubuntu or CentOs/Fedora, and install it on a spare machine, or even in a VMWare image on your regular workstation. Work through some of the examples on HowtoForge, and learn to install and configure Apache, MySQL and/or PostgreSQL, PHP/Ruby/Python, and Postfix or Exim w/basic spam filters.

Running a virtual private server (VPS) is a bit easier, in the sense that you don't have to manage the actual hardware, but the fundamentals are the same, and you'll be glad you have physical access to the system when you screw up the configuration or forget the root password. Get comfortable maintaining a machine locally, then go out and inflict your administration skills on the 'net at large.

[gexla]

Linux admin is one of those things which is easy to jump into but takes a long time to get to a point where your skills can be trusted enough to manage an important production site. You might go with a managed VPS. For example, Servint is a managed service. I am not recommending them, just using them as an example. To learn, practice using a local Linux box.

[jncraton]

I bought a VPS from VPSlink to learn how to set up a server about a year ago. They're plans start at $6 per month for a server with 128MB of RAM. That is a pretty wimpy box, but if you are just trying to see how things work, it gets the job done.

For me, the best way to learn is to just go at it. I recommend Ubuntu for ease of use, and the Ubuntu community can be quite helpful in getting a server set up. I just started with basic LAMP and then used google to find tutorials on adding and configuring other things such as virtual hosts, SSL, etc. I found it to be a pretty good way to learn.

[hooande]

Slicehost is great. My advice is to start off learning how to use the package manager for whatever OS you choose. apt-get, yum, rpmfind, etc. They usually make things easier and if you start off learning to compile from source (like I did) it can be hard to unlearn old habits.

Something to think about when using slicehost...when they give you a fresh OS install, there is very litte on it. There is only the bare minimum to bring the server up. The 'man' command isn't even installed! It might be a bit tougher for people without much commandline admin experience.

[kamme]

The basics are easy to learn, it's just a matter of following some tutorial ( howtoforge has some great ones!). But keeping it running is harder I'm afraid... I suggest you try to find someone in your area (or even join a LUG, Linux User Group) to help you with the more advanced things. You can first try setting up a server as a VM, you can get virtualbox for free and it works great! Good luck but if you want something, you can do it (some people here have learned me that)

[hs]

OpenBSD's FAQ, then man afterboot

Its online tutorials are not as abundant say to FreeBSD, let alone Ubuntu; however, you want quality, not quantity - Excellent man pages

OpenBSD is created and used by people who love their own craft -- you can feel it -- When I'm forced to use Ubuntu, i felt like i was using Windows ... I miss OpenBSD dearly

Maybe there's a blub paradox playing in OS

[strlen]

Setup the distro you'd like to run in production in vmware. Learn from there. Set this up in production. Fully understand that running your own server means carrying a pager (or your cell phone with SMS as a pager).

[gtani]

in the olden days, people would buy Frisch's oreilly book, or the nemeth /snyder/hein linux admin books. Still good picks, but a lot to work through.

You probably want tutorials/recipes based on your deploy platform: PHP, rails, django each have a bunch. Ezra Z's rails deployment book is outstanding.

And a bunch of threads have gone over the Freebsd/OpenBSD, non-BSD choices, look in

searchyc.com http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=197878

http://searchyc.com/ubuntu+fedora

[xirium]

Or http://www.ycombinator.search.xirium.com/cgi-bin/fight.cgi?q...

[bigtoga]

If you are into Windows, you might want to check out our server admin tutorials: http://www.learnwindows2003.com/

[SwellJoe]

I see what you did there. Nobody uses Windows on servers.

[kngspook]

By the way, I'd probably recommend Linode over Slicehost; you get more RAM for the same price.

But besides that; I can't really speak to either of them.

[kaens]

http://ibiblio.org has a lot of good information.

[alaskamiller]

Why Slicehost sucks and you should use Linode:

1. Slicehost makes you prepay 3 months to get started. Linode charges month to month with discounts if you prepay.

2. Slicehost does not prorate if you decide you don't like the service. Ie. Try it for 1 week and the rest of those three weeks are lost. Linode prorates on a daily basis, whatever you don't use they give you the money back.

3. Slicehost customer service is slow and more reliant on the community boards. Linode responds to emails within 8-10 hours.

4. Slicehost does not give you as much RAM (which is a lot more valuable). Linode gives you 15% more.

5. Slicehost's web admin is clumsy and crappy. Linode has a very useful admin that does everything from host management to network/cpu graphs to account management.

[gexla]

Points 1 and 2 are outdated. Point 3 is not a fact. Where does Slicehost policy say that they will only respond to email after 10 hours? Just because it happened to you does not say it happens every time. Just simply say their customer service is not as good. Point 4 is not helpful because there are many more variables to take into consideration when pricing a VPS. And anyways, Slicehost has an option for 4 GB of RAM. Linode only has an option for 2880 GB of RAM. Doesn't that mean that Slicehost gives you much more RAM? I realize you probably mean something different, but you did not explain yourself. Point 5 is opinion.

[alaskamiller]

Point 1 and 2 were valid as of May 5th of this year. In my multiple correspondences it took over a week before they finally relented on reinstating my account just so that I can see it run out instead of getting my money back. But now that you point it out they've updated the ToS, Slicehost sucks a bit less than I had thought.

Point 3 was a comparison of response rates in customer service. Linode has been consistently faster in response time for both tech and billing response. My billing inquiries to Slicehost and my tech inquiries had longer turnaround.

Point 4 was a comparison of product offerings. Linode doesn't list a 4Gb memory option but I'm sure you can ask them for it but this wasn't in contention.

Point 5: I can flesh this out into paragraphs. Would that make you feel better?

[mjwest10]

Actually these are very valid points. FYI I think he means that Linode gives you more memory for the same price as slicehost. At any rate check out this linode review for more details: http://www.linodereview.com

[kashif]

Down mod because this thread is about something else.

[alaskamiller]

Thanks. What's your email? I want to make sure to double check with you what I want to write next time on a public website.

[kashif]

I did not mean any offense.