[SilkRoadie]

I might be misinformed but it looks to me like a lot of protests in Hong Kong are state orchestrated.

The escalation in protests seemed very sharp. The ransacking of parliament appeared to have been allowed. There was no police presence at all. Almost as if they were being purposefully held back.

I might just have my tin foil hat on. I wouldn't be surprised though if Chinese groups have escalated mostly peaceful protests while police have been held back to create a situation which requires full Chinese state involvement.

[mc32]

From what I’ve read (which obviously is removed from the “ground” and has bias) China has inserted agent provocateurs, but haven’t coöpted the movement to that degree. It appears to be mostly grass roots though some of the lighter moderates evaporating leaving the moderates and hard core protesters to fight on which results in heavier tactics.

[krageon]

Assuming that a powerful nation has not deeply owned every large-scale protest is in my experience extremely naive. Either the protest has no teeth or it's penetrated all the way to the top with either government agents or extensive surveillance. This means that action outside of what the government feels like dealing with means arrests (no matter how temporary) and that any action that is taken means that the government does not care or will use it with an ulterior agenda.

It sort of bothers me how conspiracy theorist this sounds, but I know for a fact that this is the case.

[dmd]

If you really know this for a fact, you should contact https://www.nytimes.com/tips

But I'm guessing by 'fact' you mean 'I'm very convinced of my own opinions'.

[krageon]

I don't live in the United States, I do know it for a fact and I will not sabotage my own life or those of the people I care about just because you would love to read some drama in the papers. The net result of that would be that in a month or two nobody would remember it, and lives would still be ruined.

It is almost mystifyingly selfish of you to ask this of me, especially when you souse it with your fairly hostile closing remark.

[lstodd]

Assuming a modern protest has anything that can be called 'top' is extremely naive.

There is no hierarchy that can be suborned.

[woutr_be]

> The ransacking of parliament appeared to have been allowed. There was no police presence at all. Almost as if they were being purposefully held back.

I personally thinks this comes after there were more confrontations before, and there was a lot of public outcry over the use of force. (It being justified or not)

There was initially a large police presence inside the parliament (LegCo), but they all retreated after protestors became increasingly violent, I think it was mostly a tactical decision, it would've been impossible for the police to push back, so all they could do was hold their grounds. If protestors stormed in while the police was still there, it would've been a very difficult and violent confrontations. So I think they decided to fall back, and give protestors space.

And from previous protests, the police has never held back, they've always cracked down once the protests got out of control, don't really see what they would do so now, and just one time.