[godelski]

I disagree with this sentiment. You mention Rossmann. Anyone that watches his channel knows that Apple purposefully makes things hard to repair. Things could be easier if they wanted them to be. But it's clear that Apple doesn't want devices repaired. See Rossmann talk about prices and how often the genius bar just suggests replacement.

As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone incorrectly. What does this argument even mean? If your busy fixes your car wrong you don't sue the car manufacturer. If you go to a repair shop and they mess up you don't sue the manufacturer. So why would it be any different for phones or any electronic?

[kemayo]

> As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone incorrectly. What does this argument even mean?

It's 100% not their fault if someone else gets it wrong, it's true. But modern phones are complicated devices -- if you get your battery replaced poorly, and a month later your phone dies because the case was resealed incorrectly which compromised the water resistance and something got damaged as a result, is the consumer likely to think "oh, I bet that was a poor third party repair" or "ugh, iPhones suck, they're so unreliable"?

That said, I don't think this battery change is particularly tied to the personal repair issue. I think this is a shot at the resale / refurb market. Companies buying up old phones, "refreshing" them with crappy components, and selling them on to customers who don't realize that the phone is going to need a battery replacement in three months. In that case the customer didn't have the information available to tell that they'd been sold something shoddy, whereas now they can check the battery health and see this new warning.

[godelski]

The basis of your argument is that repair is too complicated and requires extremely specific and specialized training. Repairing a phone isn't more complicated than repairing a car (I'd argue a car is harder to repair). So unless you think otherwise AND you think that it is so complicated that only Apple can teach it, then your argument doesn't hold. If people CAN learn the skill of repair (seriously, give me a good reason why they can't) then it doesn't make sense for Apple to require authorized repairs (assuming they value repair over replacement). That doesn't mean they can't have certified repair (just like cars do), but the issue here is of force. All this forcing does is create anti-competitiveness and harm the market as a whole (though it probably helps Apple. But that's what anti-competitive behavior generally does. Just doesn't benefit the consumer).

[jaclaz]

For the record, it is not like car repair is made "easy" by the manufacturers, I have seen over the years quite a few cases where the "original" (issued by manufacturer only to official dealers) ODB2 connected software was needed to reset an alarm on the car computer.

It may be that the "third party" program missed at the time the particular feature (AFAIK it is all revolving about reverse engineering the "original" and that later releases had it.

And another "trend" in the car world is that of only selling as spare "non-serviceable assemblies", and regularly some smart guy manages to find out that the assembly is actually serviceable and that replacing (say) a small o-ring or gasket and/or with a couple solderings an used assembly can be reconditioned and work again for years at a fraction of the cost.

A good example is the "navigating wheel" on many BMW's, dealers will tell you that it is a €300-400 job to replace it, whilst 99% of the time is half an hour top including disassembling it, soldering a couple broken tin joints and re-assembling it.

[kemayo]

I think you’re overstating Apple’s actions here.

Specifically: Apple isn’t requiring authorized repairs. It’s displaying a warning fairly deep in the Settings app if your phone has received unauthorized repairs. That’s the consumer benefit I spoke of — being able to check for that.

I’d be very opposed if Apple was actually implementing a “lock”. You should be free to get your device repaired wherever you want.

I’d also like it if Apple adjusted this warning a bit. It’s currently the generic “your battery may need service” message. A more specific message detailing the not-an-authorized-repair situation would be more apt. Still, for now it works — if you’re getting your phone repaired yourself then the shop can warn you about it so you won’t be misled, and if you’re buying a used phone then you can know it’s not-mint.

[lallysingh]

It's not that, look at the timing. New iPhone sales are drying up. The old phones are good enough except for battery wear. So, why not force them into Apple Stores to try and upsell them, especially when getting the phone company to finance it?

$60-100 for a battery replacement today, or... $20 (a month) for a shiny new phone.

[sjwright]

I disagree with your sentiment, because it assumes that Rossmann can read the minds of Apple product designers and warranty service managers.

The "Rossmann" method of device repair might be useful for short term disaster recovery, consumer asset loss mitigation and data recovery, but how reliable are his repairs long term? We never know. How scalable is this method of repair across thousand of cities? Probably very poor.

Rossmann probably has no idea what percentage of his repairs fail within 12 months. Whereas Apple probably has a very good idea how (im)practical it would be to deploy this approach at global scale, and how reliable bodge repairs are compared to simply fitting a new board straight from the factory.

[godelski]

Apple's job is to get the device through warranty, at minimum. They look better if they last longer though. Remember how Apple used to be known for a computer that lasted 5 years instead of 2 years? The problem now is that they aren't made that much higher quality than other products (if at all). But if we look at Rossmann he frequently does jobs like retinning connectors. I wouldn't call this disaster recovery since this kind of repair is quite common in electronics in general.

We could probably guesstimate repair failures by looking at industry averages. He could also guesstimate from returning customers. This is how you get an idea of repair failure rates in the first place.

And no, you can't repair at global scale. But why would you need to? There's a reason Toyota doesn't repair every single one of their cars. Or more apt to the conversation: there's a reason Toyota doesn't require you go to a Toyota dealership to get an oil change. It doesn't make sense to. The scale would be ridiculous. There's no reason that electronics needs to be more convoluted than repairing a car. There's no reason a simple fix like a battery swap needs to be more complicated than changing your oil.

[sjwright]

Your Toyota analogy doesn't make sense.

Oil changes—Apple devices don't need equivalent routine hardware maintenance.

Warranty repairs/recalls—Whether Toyota or Apple, the manufacturer is obliged to perform (or pay a third party to perform) the rectification.

Smash repairs—Neither Apple nor Toyota is responsible for impact damage that wasn't caused by manufacturer negligence. In both cases you'd go to a third party repair shop to mitigate asset loss.

[sumedh]

> but how reliable are his repairs long term?

So the alternative is to listen to Apple's advice and buy a new device just because they think the device cannot be repaired?

[sjwright]

I didn't say that individuals shouldn't seek such repairs. I'm just talking about whether it makes sense for Apple to offer them.

[viraptor]

> As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone incorrectly.

It's not even their fault if authorised shops repairs it wrong. I got a failing key after a battery replacement, but it's after warranty, so they won't touch it. (how will you prove it's from the replacement?)

[kemayo]

This is a little off topic, but in the name of trying to be helpful... :D

If you're talking about MacBooks, there's currently a pretty expansive keyboard replacement program going on for many models since 2015, which naturally includes ones which are now out of warranty.

So, they may have told you that before, but there's decent odds they'll have changed their tune now.

Details: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...

[viraptor]

This was actually the last-good-keyboard model. :-(

[rimliu]

  > Anyone that watches his channel knows that Apple
  > purposefully makes things hard to repair.

Anyone that watches his channel knows _that he claims_ that Apple purposefully makes things hard to repair.

Not the most trustworthy person anyway.