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by JohnJamesRambo 2506 days ago
Why isn’t FedEx enthusiastic?
7 comments

Because FedEx knows that Amazon is planning on being a competitor to them.

Amazon Delivery (or some name similar to that) will eventually handle warehousing, fulfillment, transshipment, drop shipping, and last-mile delivery. Delivery is such a large expense to Amazon, it only stands to reason.

UPS presumably believes that they can compete with that. Maybe they can. Or, possibly, they believe that they will be purchased by Amazon in the future.

Yes, it is coming (google Ship with Amazon) but UPS will be fine.

In much the same way Amazon has a head start on other e-commerce firms, UPS has on Amazon. They have been customer-obsessed in one of the hardest spaces (Meatspace logistics) for literally 111 years. This kind of thing is extremely difficult to get right, and Amazon has a long, long way to go before they can compete with UPS.

Coming? Nearly all packages in my area (Grand Rapids, MI) are now delivered by Amazon.

Which is super annoying for me, I live in an apartment complex, they used to almost exclusively use USPS where I live, and they have a system where they put a key in your mailbox, etc.

Amazon's deliverers are literally random people - after talking to one myself it became apparent that they barely even require much English (I'm only complaining because that makes it harder to communicate - I don't care if they speak english or not but if it's impeding their one job - delivering a package, then I'm kinda erked)

Since it's never the same person, the standards are wild. Sometimes the package is left in my garage, sometimes by the front apartment door (you have to be buzzed in)[0], sometimes they're by my specific apartment's door [1]. Other times they take it to the rental office.

Amazon really needs to figure this out, this isn't the only apartment complex in the city.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/6GcPI7N.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/9RuceQj.png

EDIT: Also sometimes they call when they can't get inside, sometimes they just leave it outside, sometimes they don't call or ring the buzzer and just say "Couldn't deliver". It's wildly inconsistent.

I was picking up my mail at my apartment complex when an Amazon delivery dude asked if I would let him in (the apartment requires a key fob to open doors to get access to the building). I told him he can just leave his packages at the leasing office like the other carriers do. He said his instructions say to leave the packages at the apartment door, so I told him maybe the people at the leasing office could help him out.

Back at my apartment, as I'm about to be at my door, I see the guy again, he's hitched a ride up the elevator as someone else let him on, and he's asking me where apartment #### is, I pointed to the sign by the stairwell with a map of the building.

The dude didn't seem very good at his job, and the fact that Amazon is instructing their delivery people to circumvent building security to leave packages at people's door is concerning.

> the fact that Amazon is instructing their delivery people to circumvent building security to leave packages at people's door is concerning.

Oh, I'm sure that Amazon never instructed delivery agents to ignore building security. Instead, I expect they just passively incentivize it.

For example, the delivery agent might have been able to mark the package as undeliverable, but in turn they may have had to pay a penalty if more than a threshold of deliveries could not be completed as directed. It's not an instruction to trespass to deliver, just ignorance of what it takes.

In a functional delivery system, there'd be a way for knowledge like this to percolate back up -- the delivery agent would mark the package as undeliverable, and then the courier company would investigate the situation and ultimately refuse to accept deliveries for door-delivery in that building.

However, Amazon's current structure makes this functionally impossible, and a rotating cast of contractors makes even the knowledge-acquisition step impractical.

After selling on Amazon for a few years, I can say this sounds exactly like something they're probably doing.
Amazon's delivery drivers are more similar to Uber/Lyft drivers. They get minimal to no training and simply follow instructions via the app. Some of them have documented the experience on youtube and it's worth a watch. They often have to accept the route with minimal information.
You’re talking about amazon packages. I’m talking about all packages in the entire world.
Not disagreeing that they has a long way to go here, but Amazon beats 100-year-old companies on their core competencies all day, every day. I'm not sure the history will save UPS in the end.
True. However, I feel that UPS has the customer obsession factor that other 100 year old companies don’t.

See, for instance, the parent headline. UPS is fanatical about delivering packages and is therefore willing to work with a doomsday competitor in huge volume. This in contrast to Fedex who will not.

True. However, I feel that UPS has the customer obsession factor that other 100 year old companies don’t.

Sadly UPS customers aren't the people receiving the packages. I've never dealt with a company that makes it as hard to interact with a real human being as UPS. Not even banks, government agencies, etc. come close. This wouldn't be a problem, but every time UPS screws up it's a colossal effort to get UPS to correct their mistakes.

UPS routes my package from the regional distribution center in the Bay Area to Massachusetts on a same day flight? Great, it's going to take ANOTHER WEEK to get my package because UPS doesn't guarantee delivery time on ground shipments even when UPS is 100% at fault.

UPS delivers my package to the wrong address (different than above, different hub)? Yeah that only took like 2-3 hours of wading through overseas call centers where they kept claiming the package was left on at my front door before they realized they sent out a rookie driver who couldn't read house numbers. Unfortunately once you wade through the IVR you're routed to customer service people who are programmed to tell you whatever they can to get you off the phone.

UPS has a "signature required" package that I've been waiting all day for (they keep sending invalid "My Choice" verification information so I have no idea when I'll be blessed with a delivery)? Driver just lobs it at the door without even bothering to ring the doorbell.

I have one address that I receive packages at sometimes, it's about a 15 minute drive from a distribution center but for reasons unknown they route packages from the distribution center in a different county about an hour away. This means packages arrive at unpredictable times and if I miss a delivery or they screw it up, I've got to go well out of my way to sort it out.

UPS may be obsessive about something, but from my POV it's not delivering packages. More likely cost reduction is their main concern.

That's actually an interesting take. Before Amazon became huge, UPS already started having regional warehouses that stored tons of reseller items for fast delivery. Seems Amazon has wasted a lot of money if the end result was trying to buy out UPS.
Amazon logistics is very much a thing in Europe, the UK at least. I would say about 2/3rds of my parcels in London are handled by actual Amazon contractors rather than the other options, such as Royal Mail which would be the closest USPS equivalent.
To be fair, they innovated a tonn in the space so they can beat FedEx with their insane efficiency.
In my personal experience with Fedex while living in multiple cities, it seems like they aren’t enthusiastic about residential deliveries at all. Delivering to the wrong address, throwing fragile items over a fence, putting packages in hard to find places, etc. Never had any of this with UPS and also have had really good experiences with FedEx Freight.
I have to agree with you on that. I received a package this week and it was just unbelievably bad service. Compared to the Swiss Postal service fedex is in the stone age.

First package didn't arrive but a notice of final delivery attempt (was the first). They claimed the package doesn't fit in the mailbox and my "business" was closed.

Delivery notice has no QR code or quick way to access your shipment. Instead you need to type "fedex.com/ch_deutsch/mypackage" into a browser and then enter your tracking number, email and phone.

You are then presented with either having the package redelivered or delivered to an alternate address. No option to pre sign for the package or inform the driver where to put it.

If you want to pre sign the package you need to fill out the back of the delivery notice, sign it and make a photo which you send to switzerland@fedex.com. The notice will then be hand processed and you will be asked for the tracking number which is not on that side of the notice nor is there a field to fill out!

Tracking information is also completely wrong. Package is stated to be re-delivered on Tuesday after missed delivery on Monday however end of day no redelivery was attempted. Tuesday night I change the delivery address and I'm told package will be delivered on Thursday. Package arrived on Wednesday morning.

Best part. Package is actually a letter and fits in any mailbox :-/

> it seems like they aren’t enthusiastic about residential deliveries at all

That is actually the case: Fedex started as an overnight delivery company and only got into Ground in order to round out their service. Ground is actually based on a network of independent companies branded as Fedex Ground but I believe almost no one in that division actually works for FedEx the corporation (compared to the original FedEx Express which is all corporate employees).

Compare to UPS which has always been ground-first delivery network and then got into overnight long after FedEx proved it could work.

Interesting. In my city it's UPS that I found to be unreliable, most often by marking things as "undeliverable" without actually bothering trying to deliver them.

At one point I actually got an email notice that they just tried to deliver a package and nobody was home despite the fact that I had literally been reading a book on the front porch for the past 3 hours. Nobody came by.

I've heard a lot of similar stories, and I wonder two things:

1. Is some of that volume bad addresses or poor wayfinding? Something about how the delivery person ended up at the wrong location and didn't know where to go, versus bad actors.

2. Why haven't delivery companies cracked down on this? Maybe they have, but I still hear about it a lot.

> Why haven't delivery companies cracked down on this? Maybe they have, but I still hear about it a lot.

I don't know about the American package delivery space, but assuming it's somewhat resembling the German one (sub-sub-subsidiaries, work days until 11pm, because you've got a quota etc.): because it is impossible to fulfil the quota. So you get creative, fill out some "did not open door" papers and hope you can get around to delivering them the next day.

And it's impossible to fulfil the quota because that's directly profit. So companies can choose between abysmal service (but still not so bad that customers would leave, because everyone is playing that game) and lower profits. They have zero incentive to "crack down".

> Something about how the delivery person ended up at the wrong location and didn't know where to go, versus bad actors.

That's still a "bad actor." A driver is ultimately responsible for knowing the area they're delivering to. Wayfinding is a very convenient crutch, but if it fails and the driver has insufficient local knowledge it's still a skill failure.

> 2. Why haven't delivery companies cracked down on this? Maybe they have, but I still hear about it a lot.

Because their contract is with the shipper, rather than the recipient. Even a complaint from the recipient is more a PR problem than an economic one.

Moreover, a recipient who accepts redelivery or goes to the depot for pickup doesn't even impose a significant additional cost on the delivery company.

I had a similar rough patch where things were marked delivered or undeliverable for them to show up the next day almost like the delivery person was faking deliveries to shuffle their numbers around.
>putting packages in hard to find places

I'm pretty sure this is performed as a courtesy to the recipient to limit theft.

> I'm pretty sure this is performed to avoid liability and replacement due to theft.
When you deal with a huge customer like amazon (or Walmart) you have to be willing to accommodate them a lot and accept low margins while you get high volume. Some companies want to do that and others don’t.
It's better for your business to depend on many customers than on a few large customers, I'm guessing.
Rule of thumb: a healthy company should still be profitable after losing their largest customer.

If it isn't, then the customer has way too much leverage.

Would you be enthusiastic to partner up with Jeff Bezos on something like home delivery? He's going to squeeze you until you beg for mercy and that's the point he'll roll out a competing service and start to take your best customers.
Not sure if their models have changed, but FedEx is more focused on express delivery. UPS is broader on all package delivery.
What could be more express than prime same day or next day?

I guess you could say they are focused on retail express, where you can charge a poor schmuck an arm and a leg to deliver something overnight, instead of getting paid peanuts for Amazon, but for some reason I don't think that strategy is viable long term.

Just like how AWS started as an internal Amazon service, Amazon delivery is very likely to turn out to be a standalone competitor to Fedex and start serving non-Amazon deliveries.