[davesmith1983]

My grandmother cries when describing the poverty they lived in when she was a child (1930s) in Newcastle (Northern England). Nobody had it easy in the past.

Well done for falling for the propaganda that racially divides people and is frequently sold by activists to people like yourself who seem to have bought it.

People of all colours and creeds will try to garner sympathy from the other group by claiming how disadvantaged they are. The reality is that there are plenty of people from all races that have made it to the top of society.

These people constantly bring up slavery that happened during the colonial period but they never mention what is currently happening in Qatar where foreign workers building the world cup stadium are effectively slaves. This is happening today not over a hundred years in the past, if they feel so strongly about slavery why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about this?

That is why I know this is done because these actors (quite rightly I believe) think it will give them political power because they will claim they have no representation while being broadcast on the very media they claim to have no representation in.

[dang]

> Well done for falling for the propaganda that racially divides people and is frequently sold by activists to people like yourself who seem to have bought it.

This crosses into personal attack. That's not ok here, so please don't. Also, please don't get sucked into flamewars, regardless of how annoying another comment is; they're tedious and off topic here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[MrRadar]

??? What does that have anything to do with the comment you replied to?

> The reality is that there are plenty of people from all races that have made it to the top of society.

And yet the people at the "top of society" disproportionately come from a just a few of those groups. :thinking-emoji:

> ... what is currently happening in Qatar ...

Classic whataboutism. We can care about multiple things at the same time.

> while being broadcast on the very media they claim to have no representation in.

Minorities have much better access and representation in media today than they did in the past but it's still far from equal, particularly on the business side which has major influence over our media because that's where decisions are made about which projects get funded and which don't.

[davesmith1983]

> ??? What does that have anything to do with the comment you replied to?

Absolutely everything. This myth there hasn't been representation of minorities or women completely neglecting the fact that there has been plenty going back to mid 20th century.

> Classic whataboutism. We can care about multiple things at the same time.

Not at all. Slavery in Qatar is happening today, not in the past. The past can't be changed, but we can try to improve the future.

> Minorities have much better access and representation in media today than they did in the past but it's still far from equal, particularly on the business side which has major influence over our media because that's where decisions are made about which projects get funded and which don't.

Do white people have equal representation in Thai Cinema? What about rich white people always playing the bad guys there? This is a lie that is constantly sold to constantly sow racial division and people like you trot it out over and over again. All it does is divide people and allow both Black and White racist to whip up hatred.

[MrRadar]

> Not at all. Slavery in Qatar is happening today, not in the past. The past can't be changed, but we can try to improve the future.

The effects of American slavery linger to this day. People are allowed to care about things that impact them more than things that don't, and for most descendants of American slaves the slavery that happened 150+ years ago (and the subsequent 100 years of Jim Crow) has a more direct impact on their lives than foreign labor exploitation.

> All it does is divide people and allow both Black and White racist to whip up hatred.

Can you please provide an example of black racism and explain how it has prevented white people from achieving equality with black people.

[davesmith1983]

> The effects of American slavery linger to this day.

Do they? How?

> has a more direct impact on their lives than foreign labor exploitation.

Apparently slavery that happened over 100 years ago in a first world country where there is relatively good education (a friend of mine is married to a Cambodian woman and she didn't learn how to read until she was 16) is more important than the slavery that is happening all over the world today.

[MrRadar]

Why are you trying to play the oppression olympics? We can care about multiple things at the same time.

Re: the legacy of slavery, this USA Today article is a good starting point[1].

Additionally, it's plainly obvious that black Americans today have much less wealth than white Americans. When whites settled in the US they were often given farm land or brought capital from abroad to start businesses. Black slaves had neither. When they were freed most became trapped in sharecropping arrangements (often for generations) that left them with little wealth. White Americans also benefited much more from the social programs of the early 20th century, such as New Deal work programs or subsidized home mortgages (look up "red lining"), that helped build wealth.

Also, you did not provide an example of black racism (which you have referenced in at least two posts as being equal to white racism).

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/08/co...

[davesmith1983]

> Why are you trying to play the oppression olympics? We can care about multiple things at the same time.

Right I am no longer interested in talking to you. Pretending something is whataboutism when I am trying to bring some perspective is a nonsense.

As for your stats. I've seen stats that if Black couples get married and have a household they do just as well as White couples from a similar background (not I am not going to trawl the internet to cherry pick some proof).

>A lso, you did not provide an example of black racism (which you have referenced in at least two posts as being equal to white racism).

I never claim it was equal, I never claimed to know the proportions. TBH I am getting quite fed up of someone constantly putting words into my mouth.

[ergothus]

> Nobody had it easy in the past.

Clearly everyone has had it equally difficult and there is no grouping of peoples that get systemic mistreatment, evidence and statistics be damned.

Yes, people can have it hard. And people can have it hard out of proportion with their peers. This doesn't alter provable facts about sweeping populations.

> The reality is that there are plenty of people from all races that have made it to the top of society.

And just like your grandmother disproves any systemic problem by difficulty, any success by any individual does the same, proving that they cannot be an exception to the rule.

> while being broadcast on the very media they claim to have no representation in

I think if you dig a bit you'll find a lot of things you aren't seeing. And surely just one case will prove the whole, right?

[dang]

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

Also, would you please not post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of how wrong or provocative another comment is? It only leads further into hell.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[davesmith1983]

> Clearly everyone has had it equally difficult and there is no grouping of peoples that get systemic mistreatment, evidence and statistics be damned.

Never claimed that.

> Yes, people can have it hard. And people can have it hard out of proportion with their peers. This doesn't alter provable facts about sweeping populations.

I didn't claim it disproved anything. I was pointing out that life wasn't fair and there was poverty that you and I can't possibly fathom and it affected everyone no matter what the colour of their skin.

> And just like your grandmother disproves any systemic problem by difficulty, any success by any individual does the same, proving that they cannot be an exception to the rule.

Never claimed that.

It is really astounding that someone can spend so much time logic chopping and fail to understand what I was actually saying.

This lie of people having to be represented by someone of their own skin in a nonsense that is sold by activists to students to make them feel bad because of the colour of their skin. The person I was replying to had bought this nonsense.

The fact is unfortunately that racists (both white and black ones) will use this to further racially divide people about what happened in the past.

[ergothus]

> It is really astounding that someone can spend so much time logic chopping and fail to understand what I was actually saying.

Perhaps because I was interpreting it in the context of the comment you were replying to (mine).

Poverty is devastating. True...and not related at all to what I said. I didn't mention economics or finances AT ALL save to mention that my comments were true regardless of my financial background. So if your comment wasn't in relation to what I said...but it was. There's an implied connection that I gave a rebuttal to, and in the face of that rebuttal, you deny the connection. That implodes my rebuttal...but leaves your comment without contextual purpose.

> I was pointing out that life wasn't fair and there was poverty that you and I can't possibly fathom and it affected everyone no matter what the colour of their skin.

Another true statement. And also unrelated to what you were replying to, unless you were trying put in the implied connection.

> This lie of people having to be represented by someone of their own skin in a nonsense that is sold by activists to students to make them feel bad because of the colour of their skin

Citation needed - at this point you're denying misrepresentation of minorities in popular media, which is such a well-documented problem and so obviously observable that your unsupported assertions would be laughable if the issue wasn't related to tragedy. Also - I don't feel bad for the color of my skin. At all. (Except when I get a sunburn) I _do_ feel bad for supporting a system that is systemically unfair, but the solution to that is not to deny the problem, nor to assume a vast burden of guilt that you assume I (and others) have taken on. The solution is to improve the system. To modify my support.

[davesmith1983]

> Citation needed - at this point you're denying misrepresentation of minorities in popular media, which is such a well-documented problem and so obviously observable that your unsupported assertions would be laughable if the issue wasn't related to tragedy.

Sorry I don't see it. All through my life (I am almost 40 years old) there has been plenty of black people on the television and in films and most of the time it has been everything from Gangstars to Action Heroes.

> I _do_ feel bad for supporting a system that is systemically unfair, but the solution to that is not to deny the problem, nor to assume a vast burden of guilt that you assume I (and others) have taken on. The solution is to improve the system. To modify my support.

It isn't systemically unfair. You keep on asserting it is.

We live in a society that only really cares about your ability to make money i.e. produce. That is capitalism.

In the UK we had a black rapper head up the largest outdoor festival in England.

[rhcom2]

It's not hard to find actual numbers on representation of minorities in the media. Our anecdotes have more to do with our own blind spots than actual real life and don't prove anything.

"In the UK we had a black rapper head up the largest outdoor festival in England."

Again, anecdotes don't prove anything.