[manas666]

I was talking about big picture. Majority of H1-B are taken by nationals of one country. It cannot be one way street to benefit one country nationals only in H1-B and GC. I agree that the system is completely broken, but the harm to the system is contained within H1-B system only. Thanks to the country limit, the GC immigration system is not broken yet for all other nationals.

If America wants diversity in immigration, then the country limit is doing its work perfectly as was designed.

I dont agree with you that "US system is subjecting indians" - this is manipulation. You failed to mention that fact that there is entire industry of bringing Indian engineers into US from Hyderabad (and cities like that) via student visas, H1-B, and then GC. It is this system that is flooding the immigration with H1-B and then GCs that put family immigration and other category GCs in a very long backlog

[belltaco]

>If America wants diversity in immigration, then the country limit is doing its work perfectly as was designed.

No, it's not. The H1Bs that the bill benefits are already in the US and have been living there for several years. The lack of a green card is stopping them from switching jobs, which lowers their salaries which hurts the job market. It also stops them from starting up their own companies and creating jobs for everyone.

>You failed to mention that fact that there is entire industry of bringing Indian engineers into US from Hyderabad (and cities like that) via student visas, H1-B, and then GC. It is this system that is flooding the immigration with H1-B

Body shops and US companies prefer Indians instead of other nationalities because they would be stuck in the backlog which makes it really hard for them to switch jobs, so they can be paid less while reducing turnover costs. This bill will equalize things so people from other nations will be on a level playing field.

[manas666]

that's the problem of broken H1-B system that indians abused for a very long time and enjoyed the benefits of getting tens of thousands H1-B eveyr year. Now are paying for it by being in a queue.

H1-B is a temporary visa for 3 years, and was designed as such. This is not a guaranteed GC, so let's talk about who is abusing the system from working as intended, rather than lifting systemic barriers that will hurt everybody (including american citizens that will lose their jobs really fast)

[belltaco]

>rather than lifting systemic barriers that will hurt everybody (including american citizens that will lose their jobs really fast)

The bill does not add one new green card or one new H1B visa so I have no idea of what people like you keep talking about. Looks like the fake news and propaganda has won. I give up.

>Now are paying for it by being in a queue.

Yea lets punish rural doctors for being born in India.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/08/news/economy/immigrant-doct...

[thrill]

Indians did not abuse it if the law allowed their entry. There is no such thing as "working as intended" when it comes to law - there is (non)compliance. Congress's intent is fully specified when the law is written. Any wiggle room is due to Congress's inability to be precise, and occasionally interpreted by the Court when some specific law becomes a big enough issue to a complaining party that it's worth their effort to take it that far.

[manas666]

yes they do abuse and they are very creative in bending the law for own favor. H1-B program was designed as temporary program to bring skilled immigrants. But somehow ended up being abused by huge tiered network of consultancies:

1. CV/resumes for H1-B candidates - are 90% fake, inflated experience -> that leads to hiring overseas nationals over domestic professionals.

2. Usage of training visas (cpt/opt) for actual work. The training visas are for training entry-level students, not just a work authorization for experienced foreign IT specialist working for entry level wages.

3. Lower effective wage in the industry, due to inability of Department of Labor to depress wages. They go around the rules by creatively choosing specialty occupation codes to determine prevailing market wage and make foreign-brought IT talent way cheaper than domestic ones.

4. Outsourcing itself allows greedy companies to slash full-time staff and increase profits, as foreign IT nationals require fewer/cheaper benefits than domestic -> that's why C2C and consultancies in general are in high demand

there are countless other examples of how the system was abused that I can go on and on forever.

[damnyou]

As a society we decided a long time ago that blanket punishments based on country of origin are immoral.

[C1sc0cat]

Err no - society and states are quite happy with economic and other pressure being applied and effecting a population.

[damnyou]

Yes, states do all sorts of awful immoral things. But blanket punishments go against the post-war consensus regarding fundamental human rights.

Not comparing the backlogs to Japanese internment, but if you look up the history of immigration law you'll realize that the country limits in the 1965 law always had racist intent.

[deogeo]

You mean this 1965 law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac... ?

While it was sold to the American people as not affecting demographics ("Secretary of State Dean Rusk and other politicians, including Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), asserted that the bill would not affect the U.S. demographic mix."), this turned out to be extremely false, as pretty much any demographic chart will show.

[damnyou]

Yes, that's what I mean by racist intent. Turned out some of the actions done with racist intent (focus on family-based immigration) backfired, while others (per-country limits) worked out perfectly.

[deogeo]

But the law was passed specifically because the previous law was viewed as racist: "the National Origins Formula increasingly came under attack for being racially discriminatory. With the support of the Johnson administration, Senator Philip Hart and Congressman Emanuel Celler introduced a bill to repeal the formula."