Hackathons are not a good way to bring the best out of engineers

[jaChEWAg]

I personally think that sitting in a room for 2-3 days expected to stay up and build an app/website in order to win some sort of prize/job in the end is not very useful for anyone. Almost everyone that attends says they are exhausted by the end and because of the pressure of needing to produce something quick, you tend to consume unhealthy food & beverages in the process.

I realize that this might be an unpopular opinion but I am open to having a discussion.

[johnday]

People tend to compete in hackathons not for the prizes/job. They do it because you can spend a small amount of time producing something tangible which you can understand and be proud of. They are rewarding, intellectually stimulating, and fun.

In game design circles the equivalent of a hackathon is called a game jam. They are almost universal and are seen as an excellent opportunity to both try out ideas and socialise with other people that you wouldn't normally get an opportunity to work with.

> Almost everyone that attends says they are exhausted by the end [...]

Same is true of the gym. That's not an argument against.

> [...] you tend to consume unhealthy food & beverages in the process.

That's a function of planning. When we run such events we provide healthy food (fruit, primarily) for free. But we also have pizza, as we do at all of our other social events. That is more of a function of group events than of hackathons per se.

I think your concern for the well-being of hackathon participants is admirable, and if you ran such an event I think you would do it very well. Have you considered organising something?

[jaChEWAg]

I see your point of view and respect it. I think hackathons may not be everyone and my original thought was I felt companies using hackathons as a way to benchmark developers (as if we are machines) based on their output.

I could be wrong but that's just how I feel about it.

Lastly, if I were to organize a hackathon. I think the the first I would do would be making it at least a week long instead of 2-3 days. In addition, I would make it required to not allow participants to stay more than 8 hours each day. After all when I think of hackathons, I think it's a time to tinker with technology and come up with something cool. NOT staying up for 3 days straight to win some prize.

[malux85]

You’re correct in that there are some companies out there using hacksathons to benchmark and also steal IP (I’ve seen some where the participants are required to sign a document saying said company owned all intellectual property produced during the hacathon - hidden in small print)

It’s disgusting behaviour because a hackathon is supposed to be about freedom of ideas, intellectual stimulation and humour and fun - and these companies are just purely exploiting it. They should be named and shamed.

I would add that any halfway decent manager understands that while a developer can sprint, it is by definition an exhausting short term gain, and this is an unsustainable medium and long term strategy : and if your manager doesn’t understand something so basic about people management, it’s time to look for a new job

[johnday]

Yes, we have also been leaning towards running our sites for only "office hours" of 9-5, sometimes closer to 9-10 to allow for people who wake up outside of "human hours".

The downside of week-long events is that you exclude people who have to go to work or have other commitments, but might be able to make time over a weekend.

[halfjoking]

All the Hackathons I see are sponsored by some corporation trying to exploit devs for some free work/ideas related to their business/api.

The only exception are Game Jams. If hackathons were like Game Jams where you could use any tech you wanted but had to compete on a vague theme I’d be interested. The thing is that’s never the case. Private spaces cost money, prizes cost money, any sponsors are going to want a return on their investment. So that’s why Hackathons suck. IMO it has nothing to do with the food or long hours.

[MH15]

I participated in HackI/O, Ohio State's hackathon. It was an incredible experience. Even with corporate sponsors, the competition was open and reasonable.

[philipkiely]

In the university environment, hackathons are really excellent. They are usually student-run but very well funded, well organized, and well attended. I have gotten a job and other opportunities from hackathons, I have won small prizes, but the reason I go is because its a fun way to spend a weekend with my friends.

That said, if I was forced to participate in that environment instead of choosing to, or if it was for work or some other purpose that restricted my choice of projects and collaborators, then I would of course resent it, but at that point its not really a hackathon anymore, its a different kind of event stealing the name in hopes of stealing the same energy.

[gervu]

Unpopular opinion? Nah.

It's fairly well known that they're problematic at best, in that they epitomize the practices of an industry obsessed with exploiting younger workers, crunch time, and gender imbalance.

[legostormtroopr]

I'l bite - how do Hackathons "epitomize gender imbalance"? Anyone can go to a Hackathon and compete.

[jaChEWAg]

From my experience, I see that usually hackathon events have more male attendees than female. I am sure there might be hackathons where that's not the case but I don't think it would be very inviting for any female to go to an event that's full of the opposite gender. Just imagine if you were one of 5 males in an event of 100 attendees and the rest were females. I think you would be a bit uncomfortable/out of place even though that's not the case.

[belorn]

That is one of the the general theory to explain why the work force becomes more gender segregated when people has more freedom to choose. Why would someone choose to feel out of place if they have the option to choose a line of work where they can be part of a majority rather than minority.

And thus we get a work force in places like Sweden where 85% of both men and women choose to work at places which is classified as severely gender segregated. Gender imbalance is the norm.

[shoo]

they are also problematic in that they discriminate against people who don't have a bunch of time and energy to spend on something that isnt guaranteed to have a payoff.

e.g. people who are struggling to make ends meet and need actual work that pays cash, or people who have a bunch of responsibility with very little time (family to look after)

that said, such people are also disadvantaged in the workforce generally as they may lack the free time and money to be able to pursue opportunities for better jobs to help bootstrap into better circumstances, so it ain't something hackathon specific.

[jaChEWAg]

Exactly! Very well said. I wish more people realized that and stopped encouraging such events because people who are entering the field tend to think this is the norm.

[myrryr]

I think they are a great way to have a break from regular development. I love 'em

I worked for a company which runs one a year, and I honestly look forward to it. Having a chance to cut loose and show what you can do is a welcome change from the daily grind.

It also lets you show stuff that honestly you are more interested in, and maybe, you can get a product out of it - which means, you get to work on what you actually enjoy. As a way to influence a business to show what is possible, there isn't a lot better.

I think they have their place. Just not as a BAU thing.

[jaChEWAg]

I totally see your point and understand that it's good to break away from work every now and then to work on a fun project idea. The problem I have with these hackathons though is that I feel companies get to promote the culture of working late hours and staying up to build an app. I know this is only 2-3 days most of the time but it often feels like companies treating developers as if we are machines and benchmarking us based on what we can produce and come up with in a short time. I know that not all hackathons are the same and it may be that I should try different ones first.

[myrryr]

I haven't been in a company which has done that, but, I could see it happening, and yeah, that would be pretty bad.

I think that is a company culture thing, and not a hackathon thing though.

I don't even expect to see much of a correlation between company culture like that and hackathons. Or even in which direction the correlation would be if there was one.

But, I'm in New Zealand, and we have a different culture. So, it could be just that.

[atiredturte]

I think they're a good way to try something new on company time, and to have the chance to experiment with potentially crazy ideas you wouldn't have done in the past.

Some of my favourite projects I've made during hackathons

[ryanthedev]

These are only tools leadership should be using to identify different strengths and weaknesses.

There is no perfect singular deterministic test which can gauge an individuals success.

The best we can do is measure people on the contributions they can make. Use the level of impact those contributions make.

This leads into building teams. You can't take the best engineers and build an all star team. Teams are made up of different levels and types of contributions.

When a team is looking to hire people, chemistry is the most important part.

[Trias11]

Our team has essential engineer who has great potential [to become very rich person and do very creative and interesting things] and he is wasting his time and pushing on customer schedules because of his participation in stupid hackathons.

I think for some in some ways it's an effort to compensate for lack of self-esteem and prove yourself that you're worthy of praise and rewards.

[emagdnim2100]

Sounds like an opportunity to help him get those things at work and mutually benefit the engineer and the team -- or, since he's already "essential," to acknowledge that he's doing his job and not judge him for failing to give 100% of himself to the company.

[jkoudys]

I much prefer regular meetups if you're looking to branch out and meet new devs. The hackathon style of coding isn't really all that practical - even if you work at a mismanaged company that's constantly in "crunch time", coding for the purpose of writing a 5 minute demo takes a very narrow skillset.

[m463]

Many forms of competition are unhealthy. (think marathons)

But they're a good way to figure out what is important, and what you can do. And you probably can take the lessons learned and apply them elsewhere (in more sane/moderate ways)

[jaChEWAg]

Very interesting point of view. I like your thinking :)

[jaChEWAg]

To be clear, I am not against the idea of collaborating with like-minded individuals to come up with a creative application idea however the side effects that come from these hackathon events is what I have a problem with.

[tudelo]

Then... don't participate?

[shoo]

the trick, dear worker-news-ers, is to mentally find and replace "hack" with "work". and lo: "workathon"!

you too can participate in the workathon, with the chance to perhaps win payment for your work!

[singlewind]

I agree your point. It has to be fun and not commercial.