[rangeofmotion]

I get what you're saying. I agree that college and university should be looked at differently going forward for a lot of people. It's just that there is a problem that exists right this minute, with an entire generation of people who already took the loans, not realizing the outcome they would face. I'm just looking at all the wreckage and sense of instability people have all around me right now, and it seems to make sense that some collective action should take place. Unless we just want to punish people until they are middle aged or older for not being financially savvy when they were 18 years old.

But my point wasn't really to pick out just student loans. Not just due to people being burdened with student loans but a wide variety of other issues... We're more and more seeing people who hope to be able to save their own lives with GoFundMe campaigns because they can't afford to stay alive. We're seeing the idea of owning a home fade for giant swaths of the population. One third of the country is currently "subprime" in the eyes of financial institutions. And my understanding is that percentage is expected go up. The Dollar Store's massive growth is predicated on the forecast of "a permanent underclass in America". I'm seeing, hearing, and reading about so many people having a hard time every single day. And I'm reading about the country readjusting to accommodate the situation as a permanent reality. If the institutions cannot help, then I do think it's probably reasonable for the people to force the issue, given how prevalent we are seeing these problems become.

[shados]

Yup. Thats why I think all 3 of my points above need to happen at the same time. Working toward forgiving debts while still handing them out is counter productive.

Only semi related, but I also take issue about how we got there in the first place.

"Lets make college free!" "No, this is AMERICAH!~ People should pay for things!" "Ok, then lets give out loans! Gov will insure them, so its win win! People get to go to college but it doesnt cost anything!" "Ok, lets do that!" "Waaaah! People can't pay back, lets forgive their loan" "Err, wait a minute...didn't we say they were gonna be loan exactly so it wouldn't end up with the gov paying for it?"

Its even worse than if it had just been made free straight up, since infinite loans basically made education prices skyrocket mostly unchecked. This bullshit happens everywhere in the US (see: healthcare). And this is the worse of all world: you have "free market" problems, unbound pricing problems, AND the government picks up the tab. Fail on all counts.

But that's a different issue. For now, yes, lets do something about all the people who are fucked, BUT AT THE SAME TIME lets tackle the root cause.

[Domenic_S]

I don't disagree with any of these points, just had a tangentially-related thought: wouldn't making college "free" be a forcing function to tighten admission criteria, further stratifying social classes? Schools can be a bit loose today since basically anyone with a pulse can get student loans.

Just thinking out loud; I suspect looking at other countries who do this would be informative...

[shados]

> be a forcing function to tighten admission criteria, further stratifying social classes

Thats why apprenticeships and trade schools need better marketing. The glorification of bachelor degrees is toxic.

[kjsbfkjbf]

And looking at other countries it doesn't tighten social classes more than having a 50k barrier... per year.