[shados]

Yup. Thats why I think all 3 of my points above need to happen at the same time. Working toward forgiving debts while still handing them out is counter productive.

Only semi related, but I also take issue about how we got there in the first place.

"Lets make college free!" "No, this is AMERICAH!~ People should pay for things!" "Ok, then lets give out loans! Gov will insure them, so its win win! People get to go to college but it doesnt cost anything!" "Ok, lets do that!" "Waaaah! People can't pay back, lets forgive their loan" "Err, wait a minute...didn't we say they were gonna be loan exactly so it wouldn't end up with the gov paying for it?"

Its even worse than if it had just been made free straight up, since infinite loans basically made education prices skyrocket mostly unchecked. This bullshit happens everywhere in the US (see: healthcare). And this is the worse of all world: you have "free market" problems, unbound pricing problems, AND the government picks up the tab. Fail on all counts.

But that's a different issue. For now, yes, lets do something about all the people who are fucked, BUT AT THE SAME TIME lets tackle the root cause.

[Domenic_S]

I don't disagree with any of these points, just had a tangentially-related thought: wouldn't making college "free" be a forcing function to tighten admission criteria, further stratifying social classes? Schools can be a bit loose today since basically anyone with a pulse can get student loans.

Just thinking out loud; I suspect looking at other countries who do this would be informative...

[shados]

> be a forcing function to tighten admission criteria, further stratifying social classes

Thats why apprenticeships and trade schools need better marketing. The glorification of bachelor degrees is toxic.

[kjsbfkjbf]

And looking at other countries it doesn't tighten social classes more than having a 50k barrier... per year.