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by elblanco 5655 days ago
I don't (anymore).

About two years ago I went through about a six month period where I spent pretty much every day in a revert war with various people who definitely didn't know anything about the field/area I was trying to provide some information on.

I happen to have a fair amount of expertise and experience in a certain area (Music Trackers) and at the time thought I would lend a hand to flesh out the still woefully inadequate content to that part of Wikipedia and started or fleshed out dozens of pages of content. I probably spent north of 100 hours on content creation even going so far as to setup emulated environments in other OSs so I could get screen captures of some of the software. I spent dozens more cleaning up missing or outright incorrect information.

Every time I did something, the change was reverted. To this day, not a single edit I did ever stayed on Wikipedia longer than a week. Eventually, tired of endless arguing with editors who just wholesale reverted entire sections of material rather than edit or augment what I put in there, I just gave up.

Particularly egregious were the endless arguments over notoriety of this or that. Responses to the editors demonstrating conformance to Wikipedia's notoriety guidelines were met with silence and further reverts. One in particular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sega, actually has a page now anyways -- but it's not mine. Fascinatingly, I think that two of the editors causing most of the problems didn't even know what the demoscene was! In a bizarre argument from one of the editors, I was called unqualified to write about the demoscene since I myself was a 'scener!

I think I'd still be contributing if the editors had...I don't know..."edited", instead of reverted. I would have happily participated in ensuring things like objectivity and article organization were well followed, but wholesale deleting information? Nah, I'm done with participating in Wikipedia as a contributor.

1 comments

What sources (published sources by observers of the industry) did you have to refer to at the time you posted the articles you created?
As an 30 year-old underground-ish art movement rooted deeply if not almost entirely online, the demoscene is not exactly one with much printed source material or reporting (I've managed to be interviewed on TV once though at an event in Quebec)

   http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/10-of-the-coolest-demoscene-creations-715166
but has had a relatively profound impact on the tech industry

e.g. the game industry in particular is stuffed full of demosceners

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedy_Entertainment
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games
   http://www.spore.com/ftl
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PopCap_Games
etc.

(as well as a few others like the music biz)

   http://www.pelulamu.net/timbaland/
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunz
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sega
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lynne
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothomstates
nearly every soft-mp3 player supports scene music formats (.mod, .s3m, .mtm, .669, .xm, .it, etc.) or have extensions to support them

The recent resurgence in pixel art I find amusing since the demoscene has been carrying that torch for decades:

   http://gfxzone.planet-d.net/frames.html
I've been part of the scene for over 20 years myself and my sources are pretty much all primary, personal contacts, etc. Influence-wise, tons of tech industry folks got their start hacking away on 'scene projects and bring a particular style and set of associated concepts with them.

Print e-Sources though may include some of the scene-zines, a handful of books, Wired has run a few articles from time-to-time, but most of the scene exists either as web sites or chat logs to be honest.

   http://www.scene.org/
   http://www.demoscene.us/
   http://www.pouet.net/
   http://www.scenemusic.net/demovibes/
   http://datunnel.blogspot.com/
As a movement, the scene has a pretty cohesive culture, style, ethos, language, etc. One way to think of it is that it's the Liberal Arts alternative to the Open Source movement (if you consider the Open Source movement as the Hard Engineering/Science alternative to the Artsy Demoscene). It has its sub-cultures and there are various geographic differences -- dialects -- if you will to the scene. Not entirely unlike the difference between say, Korean Hip-Hop and North American Hip-Hop.

Thousands of people attend the events (called parties) which are loosely organized as competitions but are really just a chance to show off your creations to loads of like-minded folks.

   http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4868635967_19ec3ddc7c_z.jpg
Like most art movements, the work ranges from amateurish to sublime

   http://www.demoscene.tv/page.php?id=172&lang=uk&vsmaction=view_prod&id_prod=13947
(keep in mind this is realtime, one of the core foundations of the demoscene is for productions to run real-time)

...is often abstract and at times quite evocative. videos of tons of productions here:

   http://www.demoscene.tv/
So when I sit there, on wikipedia, and see this page

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Tracker_musicians
I really really want to provide some content, but I know from past experience it's not worth the effort or time. Which is a shame since I believe I would have a lot to offer in fleshing out this quite vibrant art scene.
elblanco: Please contact me (email in profile). Fi.wikipedia (I am an Arbcom member there) would very much welcome new content related to Demoscene.

It is quite appreciated popular (not really underground here) movement in Finland. Many of our most successful game developers like Remedy (Alan Wake, Max Payne), Housemarque and Bugbear were founded by demoscene vets.

Only two months ago our National Broadcasting Agency ran a 7-part documentary series on Demoscene. It is available here with English subtitles: http://dome.fi/pelit/artikkelit/yleiset/ylen-demoscene-dokum...

The very least I could look into your reverted edits and try to salvage the useful bits :)

Appreciate it, I'll send an email off in a bit, not sure if I have the kind of time I need to be a solid contributor anymore, but I can always take a stab.

(btw, some of my biggest long distance bills ever came from calling Starport years ago to get the latest releases)

I just checked and my user pages don't even exist anymore. :(