[commoner]

Google Maps is fully compatible with MicroG, a free and open source replacement for the Google Play Services client. MicroG includes UnifiedNlp, which was discussed in the blog post.

https://microg.org/

https://lineage.microg.org/

At the moment, I recommend the previous version of MicroG (0.2.6.13280) since the latest version (0.2.7.17455) may have compatibility issues. If you're using LineageOS for MicroG, builds on or before June 2 use the previous version.

NewPipe is like YouTube, but also with a background music player, a video/audio downloader, and no ads. It also supports SoundCloud.

https://newpipe.schabi.org/

You can use NewPipe regardless of whether you are using LineageOS or MicroG. It's not available in the Google Play Store (or the iOS App Store) for obvious reasons, but you can download it for any Android device from F-Droid.

[VvR-Ox]

NewPipe is one of "THE APPS" that make me regret a bit that I had to move to iOS again.

The possibility to just download and listen offline and also to create playlists without an account are awesome.

[olah_1]

Just sharing Invidious (website version of NewPipe). It's amazing.

https://invidio.us/

https://github.com/omarroth/invidious

[VvR-Ox]

Thank you very much for sharing!

I'm afraid atm it doesn't work for me (iPhone SE - iOS 12.3.1 - Firefox & Safari).

Nevertheless their work is awesome and the idea to aggregate all the things and let user's enjoy them without having to promise their first-born to providers is just amazing ^_^

[omarroth]

Would you mind providing some more details on what issues you're encountering?

[VvR-Ox]

The message I get is "The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported". It appears in the square where the video would appear (firefox & safari).

It also seems to be in a loop, reloading the page on and on with this result.

The result is the same with mobile internet as with my home connection.

[omarroth]

If there is an instance[0] in your region, I expect that will work better for you. Otherwise you might try adding `&local=true` to the end of the video URL or enabling "Proxy videos?" in your preferences.

[0]. https://github.com/omarroth/invidious/wiki/Invidious-Instanc...

[izacus]

MicroG talks to Google servers and uses Google's infrastructure while breaking the terms of service (at least in case of FCM).

Same goes with NewPipe - you're using YouTube without actually paying for bandwidth, storage costs or the video author.

So you're not actually getting yourself rid of Google or tracking, you're just using their resources without paying the asking price.

Use other alternatives instead.

[autoexec]

> Same goes with NewPipe - you're using YouTube without actually paying for bandwidth, storage costs or the video author.

> So you're not actually getting yourself rid of Google or tracking, you're just using their resources without paying the asking price.

I love newpipe. I block ads on my desktop, I'm not going to feel bad blocking them on my phone. Google has taken far too much from us, from me, for me to worry about their bandwidth or storage costs. Somehow I think the multinational billionaires will manage.

As for video creators (who themselves are regularly screwed over by Google) they should be supported using other channels.

[kbit]

Yeah, ads are a terrible and unsustainable business model anyways. I think it's much better (both for the creator and for the business and community in general) to support YouTubers you like through something like Patreon.

[JetSpiegel]

> you're using YouTube without actually paying for bandwidth

NewPipe actually saves bandwidth when you listen to audio only. As I recall, it parses the HTML and doesn't download the wasteful video stream, if you want just the audio.

Google should thank NewPipe users for their responsible use of their free resource.

[commoner]

Similar arguments have been employed against ad blocking. Users should be aware of the ramifications of their software decisions, but whether someone should download and use Google Play Services vs. MicroG, YouTube vs. NewPipe, etc. is the user's choice.

From a privacy perspective, MicroG and NewPipe are much less intrusive than Google Play Service and YouTube, because the open source apps send less user data to Google.

[izacus]

That would be fine if they'd be clean reimplementations of an API using their own backends. But advertising services which abuse SaaS infrastructure of a company is just not ok, especially in an article that's all about not using anything from Google.

I'd feel similarly about having someone advertise a way to crack Slack enterprise features instead of using something like Matternmost.

[bubblethink]

Newpipe is literally doing what the browser does, which is fair. The rest of the argument boils down to ad blocking. If you are a stickler, you could use youtube in a browser and get the ads.

[TeMPOraL]

> But advertising services which abuse SaaS infrastructure of a company is just not ok

A nitpick, but somewhat important: they're not services, they're products. Pieces of software. Alternative user agents. Very opinionated web browsers, if you like.

[bennofs]

But using FCM is enforced by apps. If they would roll their own, no app would work.

[izacus]

Not on LineageOS or any other ROM you have MicroG installed on.

[yyyk]

NewPipe is technically no different than using a web browser which isn't Google's to browse YouTube, and that's still allowed. If Google wants to turn YouTube into a closed garden, they can go ahead - I can think of no better move to spur competition.

[paulddraper]

It's not though, according to the terms of service

[yyyk]

What ToS has NewPipe been violating? I've read the ToS[0] and it seems that NewPipe is perfectly complaint.

It accesses YouTube via "the video playback pages of the Website" so it satisfies 5.1 article C. I don't see any limitation to using browsers there.

Indeed, article H strongly implies that it is allowed to use non-browser software to access these pages - otherwise spiders and robots would be banned and there would be no point to the request limit in that article.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms

[paulddraper]

I believe the most relevant section is 4.F.

> If you use the Embeddable Player on your website, you may not modify, build upon, or block any portion or functionality of the Embeddable Player, including but not limited to links back to the YouTube website.

[yyyk]

5.1. Article G? NewPipe isn't a website, so this shouldn't apply.

[realusername]

> MicroG talks to Google servers and uses Google's infrastructure while breaking the terms of service (at least in case of FCM).

Depending the country where you are based it might not matter, it might fall into interoperability legal exceptions.

[cameronbrown]

Blocking ads is ultimately irrelevant for me. I pay for YouTube Premium, however I get that most don't.

[izacus]

Yeah, I don't see the issue if you're paying for YT. But I'm still not a fan of having guides on how to essentially avoid paying for use of SaaS services. It's not unlike piracy.

[mindslight]

> So you're not actually getting yourself rid of Google or tracking, you're just using their resources without paying the asking price.

Google's asking price includes performing invasive surveillance. So when dodging Google's surveillance, it is impossible to access any content hosted at Google while living up to your standard. Which makes your argument a bit dishonest.

Now sure, there is a straightforward argument that the best way to push back against Google is to completely avoid content hosted there, which discourages others from hosting there in the first place. But you did not make this argument, I suspect because it's overly optimistic in an environment of heavy network effects.

[kbit]

SkyTube is another free YouTube client which works really well. One feature I am very fond of (not sure if NewPipe has that as well?) is 'subscribing' to channels through a local database, without a YouTube account.

[ayoisaiah]

Can confirm that NewPipe has this feature

[Youden]

> Google Maps is fully compatible with MicroG, a free and open source replacement for the Google Play Services client. MicroG includes UnifiedNlp, which was discussed in the blog post.

Google Maps can get its location from MicroG but in my experience it isn't even close to fully functional. Basic things like searching for a location or asking for directions just result in endless spinning.

[commoner]

Have you tried it recently? The most recent version of Google Maps works without any issues for me.

[Youden]

Yep, everything I have is up to date. Might be device/ROM dependent?

[commoner]

MicroG's latest version (0.2.7.17455) switched to Mapbox for map rendering. MicroG's implementation of Mapbox is currently buggy, although the performance is much improved. This version should have been marked as a preview release, in my view, since it's not stable enough for use.

Can you try the previous version (0.2.6.13280)? If you're using LineageOS for MicroG, the latest build on or before June 2 contains the previous version.

[diafygi]

Do you have a recommendation for a phone that has a <=5" screen that is supported by LineageOS and MicroG? It seems like most of the well supported phones are too big to comfortably fit in my pocket.

[jasonjayr]

I struggled for a long time to find a useful recommendation. I finally arrived at a way of figuring it out:

Check their stats: https://stats.lineageos.org/

Pick your country on the right, then lookup the models listed at the left from most popular to least popular.

The phones that are the most popular stand the chance of being the most stable, and best supported. I finally arrived @ "nash", which is more commonly known as the "Moto Z Force" (https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/nash). You'll have to copy/paste the code names to their devices wiki to get the specs.

I got one second hand with some wear for about US$100 on ebay. It was easy to unlock, and I'm fairly impressed with how it works with Lineage thus far (About 2-3 months as my only phone). It's 6" tall, I'm not sure the diagonal, but it fits comfortably in my pockets. I added a case since it's super thin otherwise.

#3 in the US is https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/klte @ 5.59" tall ...

[lake99]

Thank you! I'm on the lookout for a new phone supported by LOS. This will come in very handy.

[commoner]

I personally recommend the first-generation Google Pixel XL (marlin), which costs under $100 used on eBay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_(smartphone)

With MicroG, Google Camera works as it does on stock Android. Most phones on LineageOS aren't able to use their stock camera app, which results in reduced camera quality compared to stock Android. The Pixel/Nexus line, ironically, is the main exception.

Google Camera isn't available on F-Droid or Yalp/Aurora Store, but you can download it from APKMirror:

https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/google-inc/camera

(APKMirror is operated by Android Police, so it's a trusted site.)

[mindslight]

Can you elaborate on this? Is it the app itself needing to do some type of processing for peak performance, or some firmware blob that the app bundles and loads?

Pictures on my S7 herolte (microG+LOS obviously) are grainy, and investigating why is quite far down on my todo list. This wasn't a problem on i9500, klte, or shamu. I had thought the issue must be some missing firmware, either from the OS image or it got wiped somehow. Compounded by being in Exynos rather than more popular Qualcomm land. But not knowing all that much about the Android photo stack, it's interesting to hear you say it depends on the app used itself.

[commoner]

Camera quality depends on both the camera firmware blob and the camera app. On high-end Android phones, the camera app usually makes use of proprietary features on the firmware blob and performs post-processing (such as HDR and bokeh).

Other Galaxy S7 (herolte) users seem to have the same problems as you on LineageOS, but it's hard to tell exactly what causes them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/8awrcz/herolte_g...

Also, the Galaxy S7 is no longer officially supported by LineageOS, since there are currently no active device maintainers:

https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/herolte/

It's difficult to diagnose issues with unofficial builds of LineageOS, because they most likely don't meet the LineageOS device support requirements:

https://github.com/LineageOS/charter/blob/master/device-supp...

Google Camera's post-processing has been well-received, and the app has been ported to many non-Google devices, including the Galaxy S7. I'm not sure how well the S7 ports work (especially if your S7 has an Exynos SoC) but XDA Developers has a couple of active threads here:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s7/themes

Using one of the ports might improve your camera situation. No guarantees, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I recommended the first-generation Pixel and Pixel XL because they are the only phones that are currently supported by both LineageOS and the latest version of the official (non-ported) Google Camera app. For people who aren't particular about camera features and quality, the Camera app that comes with LineageOS or any third-party camera app would be adequate, and you can use these with any supported device.

[commoner]

A correction: instead of "stock Android", I meant the factory operating system that comes with the phone.

[commoner]

Oops, I missed the "at most 5 inches" part. The first-generation Google Pixel (not XL) has a screen that measures exactly 5 inches, and is even cheaper than the XL.

[sm4rk0]

I used Moto X (1st gen) with LineageOS (Marshmallow) and microG until I broke it this May. It has a 4.7" AMOLED and 2GB RAM. CPU has only two 1.7GHz cores, but it did its job quite well even after 5 years.

[3xblah]

With the phones I have tested, Google Maps does not require a working Google Play Store. It makes sense that replacing Play Store would have no effect.

[commoner]

Google Maps doesn't require the Google Play Store, but it does require Google Play Services (like most Google apps).

https://developer.android.com/distribute/play-services/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

MicroG can replace the Google Play Services requirement for Google Maps. To download Google Maps without the official Google Play Store client, you can use the free and open source Aurora Store:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.dragons.aurora/

[3xblah]

"Google Maps doesn't require Google Play Store, but it does require Google Play Services..."

On the phones I have tested Google Maps works with Google Play Services turned off.

[commoner]

Google Maps is marked as dependent on the Google Services Framework, but it clearly doesn't use the same map tile rendering system that MicroG uses. I guess Google Play Services is only used for the logged-in features, which privacy-conscious users would avoid.

[3xblah]

This could be the explanation. I never log in. :)

Irrespective of privacy, I am just not interested in the personalisation or, e.g., reading email on a phone.

[commoner]

I don't log in either, but Google Maps has an offline navigation feature that's restricted to logged in users:

https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6291838

Instead of using this, I have Here WeGo installed as a backup app for offline navigation:

https://wego.here.com/

[amelius]

> Google Maps is fully compatible with MicroG

You mean it is still fully compatible with MicroG. Guess what will happen when the OS becomes popular.

[SXX]

MicroG is not an OS, but open source reimplementation of Google APIs and make usage of Google backend optional when possible (e.g push notifications). So unless Google going to drop support for all older Android versions in Maps it's all going to be alright.

[OrgNet]

if you tell your web browser to request the desktop version of youtube, it also can be used as a background music player