[6cd6beb]

>If these drivers get everything they want, I cannot imagine a scenario where fares do not go through the roof, which will likely lead to a decrease in demand, which will have a negative effect on take-home pay for drivers.

With that in mind, revisit page 8 of uber's S1 document(link below), where their momentum towards profitability depends of a circle of arrows where

more drivers/driver availability → lower fares/wait times → more riders → more driver opportunity/earning potential → more drivers

Now just turn the arrows backwards and swap out less/more lower/higher ; if something like unionization occurs that's the path through which uber will (according to their own rubric) spiral down to 0.

The only way they could prevent hemorrhaging drivers and users once that spiral started would be to burn through VC money at a faster rate.

S1 document - https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1543151/000119312519...

[seeker61]

What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on ... should be

[dogma1138]

Do you think the people who made your clothes were paid enough to live on? I highly doubt so.

[toomuchtodo]

Uber drivers in question are faced with first world costs of living. You're moving the goal posts in support of economic slavery (comparing third world workers in the third world to first world gig workers in the first world, with first world costs of living).

If you can't pay your first world employees a first world living wage, Bye Felica.

[jstarfish]

Taxi driving is not skilled labor. It simply isn't worth much; certainly not what its full-time drivers are demanding.

Can we also complain about Mechanical Turk? I'd like to earn first-world wages classifying pictures of cats full-time.

Neither scenario is what the gig economy is supposed to be about. If a job doesn't pay sustainably, don't do it.

We tried to regulate taxis such that driving one paid wages on par with costs of living, but then some asshole company undermined that with a populist smartphone app.

[toomuchtodo]

So your argument is allow economic abuse instead of regulating against it? No thank you. I like regulation; with it, we get a better society, not Mad Max Race To The Bottom driven by apathetic consumers and psychopathic businesses.

EDIT: I do see the problem, and still believe regulation is the answer (in this case, California legislation [1]).

"If signed into law, the legislation will codify a landmark April 2018 California Supreme Court ruling, which introduced a three-part test to determine which workers businesses can reasonably classify as independent contractors and which must be treated as genuine employees. Workers considered employees are entitled to key labor protections and benefits—such as a minimum wage, overtime pay, and protections under antidiscrimination laws—which many gig-economy companies have long resisted."

This will decapitate gig economy companies in California.

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protec...

[jstarfish]

No, I'm for regulation, but Uber drivers themselves are actually the problem here.

We had a regulated industry. Its labor force had collective bargaining power. Its labor pool was capped to limit surplus labor and everyone could get paid fairly.

Uber came along, organized a bunch of scabs willing to work for pennies to undermine all that, devalued the labor the existing industry provided and now those scabs are complaining they're not paid enough.

Do you not see the problem with this?

[jstarfish]

I think you get my point and I do get yours. I don't believe in exploitation and support efforts to mitigate it.

One negative outcome of that particular regulation will be the games that start getting played to beat around that three-part test, like Walmart delegating hours just a few short of qualifying employees for benefits. We've seen this play out before and I have my doubts about its effectiveness.

[taxicabjesus]

> Taxi driving is not skilled labor.

I had a couple passengers who'd tried their hands at taxi driving and couldn't make money. It takes a while to figure out the ropes, where to go for the big fares that pay the bills, etc. Being able to deal with problematic people is a challenge too.

> It simply isn't worth much;

Except when you have somewhere you need to go, and no vehicle to get you there. Having someone to drive you home from the bar is invaluable when you're wasted.

> certainly not what its full-time drivers are demanding.

Economic cancer has many symptoms.

App-based dispatch simplifies driving people around for money. It also hides the cost of driving. If people don't keep track of their mileage and expenses, app drivers are probably losing their shirts on their vehicles' depreciation. The taxi company kept most of its vehicles on the road for 400,000 miles. I doubt many ride-share vehicles will make it past 200,000, as parts on cars are always breaking, and it's expensive to pay someone full shop rates ($75+/hour) to fix it for you. Our crew of 3-4 drivers put 100,000+ miles a year on the taxi we shared. That cab had a head gasket replaced, a battery pack, and a used engine was transplanted when the head gasket failed again. It was totaled in an accident at around 475,000 miles (this was after I had to quit), soon after the owner had paid it off.

I wasn't the best at maximizing my income because I was more interested in people and their stories than the bottom line. I made enough to pay my rent and keep afloat, even after the vulture capitalists arrived with their "not-a-taxi" service.

> We tried to regulate taxis such that driving one paid wages on par with costs of living,

Arizona's regulations are for safety (background checks for drivers, basic vehicle maintenance, etc) and consumer protection (calibrated taxi meters).

> but then some asshole company undermined that with a populist smartphone app.

populist subsidized smartphone app.

[dogma1138]

Do you think sweatshops in Bangladesh pay Bangladeshi living wage?

If the only problem you have with this is that this exposes modern slavery in your back yard then you have a problem.

[toomuchtodo]

I have a problem with all modern slavery but I'm practical about the parts of the ocean I have enough energy to boil.

I highly encourage workers in third world countries to unionize and fight for a living wage locally through activism and political engagement.

[eli_gottlieb]

What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on should be.