[benatkin]

It seems like the path forward is clear. Sandberg:

> "The thing is, it's not enough," she says. "It's really important to not harass anyone, but that's pretty basic. We also need to not be ignored."

There's no need to walk back any part of MeToo to solve this problem, just to keep pushing forward.

[educationdata]

No. Real world is not that simple. Certain things are only considered harass between man and woman, but not between same sex. For example, asking to meet (drink, sports, etc.) after work. So there's a choice between either "ignore" or "harass".

Yes, you don't have to do these, but some people just like buddyhood kind of binding more than others.

[benatkin]

That's a problem for the managers to solve, and they can solve it by reducing the number of business dinners they do with men, if they can't figure out a good way to do business dinners with women. The work hours and the options for dining near the office might mean that it's too difficult to have a work dinner that isn't too cozy, and if it is, so be it. It's entirely their responsibility to have management practices that aren't sexist.

[stale2002]

Ok, but thats just screwing over everyone, right? Is that really the kind of "equality" that we want?

[benatkin]

No, the ideal is an open and transparent workplace, where you can go to dinner with anybody and not worry about getting in trouble, because there are casual enough places to eat, where you don't feel like you're on a date when you have dinner with someone there, unless you're Mike Pence. And where that isn't available, you find another activity for mentorship besides a work dinner. If your suburban office park only has one dining place nearby and it has candles, do a work lunch instead, with food you brought.

[stale2002]

Sure that's all well and good.

But what you suggested was that people change their behavior regarding other coworking relationships that are otherwise working fine for both parties.

If both parties are totally comfortable with whatever dinner plans that they have with each other, then who are you to go in and tell them not to?

You suggested that men change their mentorship behavior that is otherwise working fine with their male mentees.

[benatkin]

There needs to be a shift towards environments that are appropriate for meetings between people who are likely to have sexual tension between them, as well as meetings between those who aren't. Otherwise any time someone starts a new mentorship activity, they'll have to think it through, and that in itself is going to bring up questions that aren't appropriate in the workplace. For example: "Should I take Joe to the bowling alley with me alone? Will he worry that I'm going to compliment him on how strong his arms are? If I drink will it feel awkward for him if he doesn't drink?" I think it's better to skip all that and just keep it professional.

[didibus]

Why are you asking someone to meet you after work? I'm confused? That's a work meeting?

[paganel]

Why would a billionaire business person feel “ignored”? Why does that person feel the need to speak for other persons whose experiences are most probably alien to her?

[benatkin]

The more people who hear your message, the more people can actively ignore your message. While her chances of being ignored by everyone go down, the number of people who will ignore her goes up.