[benatkin]

That's a problem for the managers to solve, and they can solve it by reducing the number of business dinners they do with men, if they can't figure out a good way to do business dinners with women. The work hours and the options for dining near the office might mean that it's too difficult to have a work dinner that isn't too cozy, and if it is, so be it. It's entirely their responsibility to have management practices that aren't sexist.

[stale2002]

Ok, but thats just screwing over everyone, right? Is that really the kind of "equality" that we want?

[benatkin]

No, the ideal is an open and transparent workplace, where you can go to dinner with anybody and not worry about getting in trouble, because there are casual enough places to eat, where you don't feel like you're on a date when you have dinner with someone there, unless you're Mike Pence. And where that isn't available, you find another activity for mentorship besides a work dinner. If your suburban office park only has one dining place nearby and it has candles, do a work lunch instead, with food you brought.

[stale2002]

Sure that's all well and good.

But what you suggested was that people change their behavior regarding other coworking relationships that are otherwise working fine for both parties.

If both parties are totally comfortable with whatever dinner plans that they have with each other, then who are you to go in and tell them not to?

You suggested that men change their mentorship behavior that is otherwise working fine with their male mentees.

[benatkin]

There needs to be a shift towards environments that are appropriate for meetings between people who are likely to have sexual tension between them, as well as meetings between those who aren't. Otherwise any time someone starts a new mentorship activity, they'll have to think it through, and that in itself is going to bring up questions that aren't appropriate in the workplace. For example: "Should I take Joe to the bowling alley with me alone? Will he worry that I'm going to compliment him on how strong his arms are? If I drink will it feel awkward for him if he doesn't drink?" I think it's better to skip all that and just keep it professional.

[stale2002]

Ok, now let's say that I am a normal person, who is also dealing with another normal person, and both of us are able to easily navigate these hypothetical situations while also not being extremely professional?

[sfink]

Then go ahead? If there isn't a problem, and you both know there isn't a problem, then... there isn't a problem?

I may be missing your point. If you mean that two men shouldn't have to stop meeting at a bar when they're both comfortable with it, simply because there's a woman on the team who wouldn't be comfortable in the same situation, well... let's say your team has a habit of meeting at a Brazilian steakhouse to make important decisions. Then you hire Dave's brother Jerry, who is a strict ethical vegetarian. Don't you think it might be a decent idea to pick a different restaurant? Jerry swears he's willing to come along to the steakhouse and bring his own food, though you notice he looks pretty queasy and never touches his food the whole time you're there.

Or maybe you think it's fine if he quit if he's so uncomfortable, your team just isn't right for women oops I mean vegetarians and they'd be better off working somewhere else.