[ne01]

Just my 2.5 cents for myself.

Happiness is not a good thing. It is the other side of the same coin that brings me sadness and pain. What I'm looking for is peace.

Being in peace is the ultimate form of being -- the only form of being.

If I'm not in peace it means I'm chasing something else. When I stop looking for anything (including peace itself) then I am... I am.

[vincentmarle]

People who are in peace generally don't have to think much about happiness, so in that sense peace = happiness.

[ne01]

Being in peace brings me joy but no happiness. Happiness takes one's ego up and what goes up will always come down.

But words are words, my joy could be your happiness.

[sridca]

How can you tell that your peace is not an instance of (arguably more intense than usual) emotional detachment rather a simple absence of the feeling of unhappiness?

[ne01]

I don't fully understand the question but here is my thoughts on "emotional detachment" and "absence of the feeling of unhappiness"

When I separate me with what is driven by me... I start to realize that I'm not JUST my feelings/ego. Saying I'm not my feelings/ego is as big of a lie as saying I am the ego.

But realizing that I am not JUST the ego puts me in a beautiful state of the mind -- so different than other states that I call it "no state". For me it is better to first think that I'm not the ego then embrace it -- it always works for me when I want to go into a deeper level of peace/joy/consciousness.

In other words, detachment from feelings is a tool used by me to get to the state where I feel everything.

Also, I like to think of all these as a complex mind/being trying to optimize/control itself -- it is not supernatural, religious or anything.

[sridca]

That clearly answers my question, which you understand quite well.

The problem with detaching from feelings like you do is that whatever fabricated peace that results from it is not a lasting one and when "push comes to shove" it will burst leading to the same old same old. These fabricated mental states are not reliable.

Actually feeling peaceful--as in, genuinely feeling happy and not unhappy--on the other hand is quite artless and natural, much like children feel playful and happy without artificial effort.

[ne01]

> The problem with detaching from feelings like you do

Detachment in the sence of not being dependent/defined by them, NOT in the sense of not feeling.

> These fabricated mental states are not reliable.

I think this is also the exact opposite. You are basically describing happiness made by mind of children and most adults which is artificial and dependent on what is not in their control. I like to describe that kind of hapiness as surfing the waves of emotions, going up and down, happy always bring sadness, and for them sadness always bring pain. But the solution is to grow up and understand that you are the ocean, this does not mean to feel nothing... quite opposite... it is the start of feeling more.

Happiness comes from the events outside. In case of a child you can take his toy away and he becomes sad.

I once saw a child cry because her friend went to the bathroom first. Children have a lot to teach those who are detached from being alive, but their understanding of world/self is not wise.

On the other hand the joy of being alive is always there and is not dependent on anything else. Once I realize the beauty and the significance of my own being, nothing brings me down from pure joy (which is more than happiness).

This is natural, effortless and is part of growing up as a human.

I learned a lot, thinking about your comments. Thanks! +1

[sridca]

> Detachment in the sence of not being dependent/defined by them [...]

That is the very definition of detachment.

Feelings are the core part of you, and not separate from you. Allowing "yourself" to not be defined by feelings essentially means detaching "yourself" from "your" feelings.

> Detachment [...] NOT in the sense of not feeling.

Of course if one is not feeling a feeling in the first place there is nothing to detach from.

> This is natural, effortless and is part of growing up as a human.

So whenever you begin to feel one or more of the following feelings[1] is it "natural, effortless" to experience your peace?

--

[1] sadness, loneliness, melancholy, grief, masochism and so on through all the variations such as agony; angst; anguish; anxiety; apprehension; bereavement; bleakness; crestfallen; deflated; dejected; depression; desolation; despondency; disappointment; disconcerted; disconsolate; discontented; discouraged; disenchanted; disillusioned; displeased; disquiet; dissatisfied; distress; dismay; downhearted; dreariness; edginess; fear; fed-up; flustered; foreboding; fretfulness; frustrated; gloominess; glum; grief; heartache; horror; lament; melancholic; miserable; misery; morose; mourning; nervousness; panic; perturbed; regret; sad; sadness; sorrow; sorrowfulness; suffering; tenseness; terror; thwarted; torment; trepidation; troubled; uneasiness; upset; woe; worry; wretchedness

[ne01]

> That is the very definition of detachment. > Feelings are the core part of you, and not separate from you

You are right. Then it is detachment but with feelings if it makes any sense to you. It's like you go beyond those feelings -- without excluding them.

> So whenever you begin to feel one or more of the following feelings[1] is it "natural, effortless" to experience your peace?

Yes because the peace you are talking about is what gives birth to all those feelings.

In other words, I no longer care about who goes to the toilet first.

And, it takes time for one to grow up. In that moment at the age of 4 no one could convince her that the pain/sadness she feels is self-made. One can argue that, those experiences are necessary to grow. But I'm sure we agree that it is a good thing to keep growing even after that.

[pkghost]

What's wrong with chasing? The buddha didn't check out after enlightenment, he spent the rest of his life chasing the same thing for others

[ne01]

> What's wrong with chasing?

Absolutely nothing. In fact chasing what I truly want to chase will eventually bring me closer to myself.

> Buddha didn't check out after enlightenment

Buddha is not enlightened until we all are. I used to think he was a different person and I still do, only sometimes :)

[HNLurker2]

>Buddha is not enlightened until we all are. I used to think he was a different person and I still do, only sometimes

This gives me a Mahayana bad taste in my mouth. (THERAVADA PERSPECTIVE)

[ajawee]

If I have goals, then I will chase something. Does it mean I am not in peace.

[ne01]

> Does it mean I am not in peace.

No. You already have peace! Being in peace is the natural form -- the only way of being. Everything else is like a dream, created by our mind... imagined.

> If I have goals, then I will chase something

True, I think.

Now I'm thinking... if pain is imagined... can I chase without imagining pain? I think so. I/You can do anything.

[ajawee]

Little bit confused. Being in peace, what should I do? Or do nothing?

> Now I'm thinking... if pain is imagined... can I chase without imagining pain? I think so. I/You can do anything

Do you mean I can chase anything without losing peace. How is it possible?

[ne01]

> Or do nothing?

Do what you want, but don't define yourself by what you do. Be free of whatever defines you. Can I write this comment without letting it define who I am... not yet. but I'm working on it.

Things/goals are not bad, they have no energy, I give things energy. Imagine a heavy refrigerator in my kitchen, as long as I leave it alone it does not bother me, if I try to move it, It starts to resist... I feel no weight until I give energy to it, heck I can even break my back trying to move it :)

You may ask, what is wrong with being defined by them?

For the one who does not know himself (like me) it would be an ugly lie. A lie that brings pain.

> How is it possible?

By first distinguishing you from what is driven by you.

I don't believe in traditional meditation that requires one to sit. I believe we are all so close to our own being and peace that we only need to stop and enjoy it! It could be anywhere, anytime in any form!

Believe that you already have it! Believe that you are complete and nothing needs to be chased/changed/added/removed from whatever remains of you when are not defined by anything. In that moment of pure being and joy, you start to realize that your are! You ARE everything and nothing -- including the ego, definitions and more. In that moment, things have no meaning but you become the meaning in everything.