While there are a number of telling studies and statistics relating to gender issues, I think there is enough missing information that it isn't really possible to say much of anything intelligent on the subject. Given that we literally can't even tell the difference between a mental illness and a physical illness much of the time, I don't think science is ready to put a number on the percentage of the entrepreneurship gender gap that's attributable to sexism. For all we know it could be due to social factors or biological factors that are so non-obvious that no one has even thought of them yet.
I know plenty of women who would have no problem with any of the above. These things happen at some startups, don't happen at others, some women wouldn't want a workplace like this, others would enjoy it. And this is just one of many, many factors. Again, without more information you can't really say anything intelligent.
I know plenty of women that look at porn, one female friend continually makes jokes about raping me, and if you don't think that women talk about men when they're not around...
Not that I totally disagree with you, and most of my peer group is under 30. Just saying.
> I know plenty of women that look at porn, one female friend continually makes jokes about raping me, and if you don't think that women talk about men when they're not around...
While you're right that this isn't in a professional setting, I've also seen plenty of shenanigans on the job, too... admittedly, this has a lot to do with the individuals and the culture.
Yes, I believe that among developers in general and software startups in particular you will find an average to below average number of people with a sexism problem. You will however find an above average number of people who a) can't take a joke b) are somewhat bone headed in making inappropriate jokes. c) people who fall in to categories A and B at the same time.
People believe lots of different things. What is inappropriate to say in front of one person is not inappropriate to say in front of another. I believe that given their target audience nothing in the post was inappropriate. The slight but vocal response would seem to back that claim.
To tell you the truth I must be so far in category B that I still don't understand the protest. Man has been used as a synonym for human for as long as I can remember. That would make men being the plural of man a synonym for people.
To be completely fair, the original ad that was referenced really was looking exclusively for males.
But does this mean that we should avoid all references to a past in which people were less enlightened? Must we pretend that the world was never that way, or pretend that everything that happened in that world was evil because of it?
Those who jump on the slightest whisper that men and women, or people of different races, or cultures, or whatever, might be different in some ways are deluding themselves. That's not to say that we can put a value on any of these differences, nor that these differences are any more than statistical tendencies and not applicable to individuals.
I'm a male. I don't give a flying fuck about 'culture'. There is no culture. It matters not a jot to me. It never has. Why should it???
I grew up hacking away on my own in my bedroom floor hunched in front of a PC making raycasting demos at 4am. WTF has culture got to do with me doing that???
Are you trying to say that I started programming because I was embraced by some culture??? Are you saying that women are put off solely because of this mythical culture you speak of? Grow up.
Once you have a few kids, you learn that most differences in the sexes are genetic.
Women enjoy communicating. They're social beings on the whole. Sitting talking to a computer does not appeal. This is not rocket science. It's not environmental. It's hard wiring. Women = nurturing, communication. Men = hunt, build. If you can't see that, I'm not sure what hope there is for you.
You realize that the average man doesn't enjoy programming either, right?
Why shit on the exceptional women who do?
Also regarding kids -- my experience is that while there are differences in wiring, parents and friends do subtle things from even before birth that tend to skew things differently for different genders. Whoa anecdote deadlock.
Why are you so angry? People rarely make sense when they're angry -- perhaps this is true here, too?
It's just so tiring people being offended by this sort of thing.
Also, TBH, I kinda find it offensive to suggest that the only reason I started programming was because I'm a male, and because there's apparently some 'male friendly culture'.
I'm angry because I hate the whole "Everyone is absolutely equal" movement. They're not. Everyone is not equal. We're all different. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. Embrace those differences. Especially in the sexes.
I hear you. I find a lot of activist arguments annoying, because I'm a wealthy focused guy with a 150 IQ, who's happy to sit in the basement working on the next big thing. :)
It doesn't mean they're wrong, though. I've seen many examples of just gross sexism from techies who were convinced those other people with the shirt-bumps were just whiners.
> It's hard wiring. Women = nurturing, communication. Men = hunt, build.
Let's ignore all the mountains of evidence to the contrary and say that, on average, you are absolutely correct.
Have you read Harrison Bergeron? Go on, it's easy to find on google. I'll wait.
Okay, done? Good. Now think about this:
No matter how correct you may be about genetic predestination, your sexist attitudes, and the actions you take based upon those assumptions and beliefs, create a deep moral wrong against any woman who dares to be exceptional.
Let's ignore all the mountains of evidence to the contrary and say that, on average, you are absolutely correct.
Please, trot out some of the evidence. I can find plenty that agrees with his statement that men and women are wired differently. I'll get you started:
Aside from that, it makes zero sense from an evolutionary standpoint that both genders would adapt to have the same abilities, preferences, and attitudes. I know it's hard for your PC worldview, but you need to step back from your anger and self-righteousness and examine the evidence.
I'm not interested in debating about just how different men and women are, and in which respects, and what parts are environmental and what parts genetic. At the end of the day it doesn't matter, which is why I said "let's ignore...".
If a woman wants to move beyond what is 'normal' for her gender, why is it acceptable to discriminate against her?
It doesn't matter a bit whether 'normal' is biological in origin or cultural.