[axod]

I'm a male. I don't give a flying fuck about 'culture'. There is no culture. It matters not a jot to me. It never has. Why should it???

I grew up hacking away on my own in my bedroom floor hunched in front of a PC making raycasting demos at 4am. WTF has culture got to do with me doing that???

Are you trying to say that I started programming because I was embraced by some culture??? Are you saying that women are put off solely because of this mythical culture you speak of? Grow up.

Once you have a few kids, you learn that most differences in the sexes are genetic.

Women enjoy communicating. They're social beings on the whole. Sitting talking to a computer does not appeal. This is not rocket science. It's not environmental. It's hard wiring. Women = nurturing, communication. Men = hunt, build. If you can't see that, I'm not sure what hope there is for you.

[JabavuAdams]

You realize that the average man doesn't enjoy programming either, right?

Why shit on the exceptional women who do?

Also regarding kids -- my experience is that while there are differences in wiring, parents and friends do subtle things from even before birth that tend to skew things differently for different genders. Whoa anecdote deadlock.

Why are you so angry? People rarely make sense when they're angry -- perhaps this is true here, too?

[axod]

It's just so tiring people being offended by this sort of thing.

Also, TBH, I kinda find it offensive to suggest that the only reason I started programming was because I'm a male, and because there's apparently some 'male friendly culture'.

I'm angry because I hate the whole "Everyone is absolutely equal" movement. They're not. Everyone is not equal. We're all different. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. Embrace those differences. Especially in the sexes.

[JabavuAdams]

I hear you. I find a lot of activist arguments annoying, because I'm a wealthy focused guy with a 150 IQ, who's happy to sit in the basement working on the next big thing. :)

It doesn't mean they're wrong, though. I've seen many examples of just gross sexism from techies who were convinced those other people with the shirt-bumps were just whiners.

[crux_]

> It's hard wiring. Women = nurturing, communication. Men = hunt, build.

Let's ignore all the mountains of evidence to the contrary and say that, on average, you are absolutely correct.

Have you read Harrison Bergeron? Go on, it's easy to find on google. I'll wait.

Okay, done? Good. Now think about this:

No matter how correct you may be about genetic predestination, your sexist attitudes, and the actions you take based upon those assumptions and beliefs, create a deep moral wrong against any woman who dares to be exceptional.

Get it now, you fucking jackass?

[ryanwaggoner]

Let's ignore all the mountains of evidence to the contrary and say that, on average, you are absolutely correct.

Please, trot out some of the evidence. I can find plenty that agrees with his statement that men and women are wired differently. I'll get you started:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=men+and+women+...

Aside from that, it makes zero sense from an evolutionary standpoint that both genders would adapt to have the same abilities, preferences, and attitudes. I know it's hard for your PC worldview, but you need to step back from your anger and self-righteousness and examine the evidence.

[crux_]

I'm not interested in debating about just how different men and women are, and in which respects, and what parts are environmental and what parts genetic. At the end of the day it doesn't matter, which is why I said "let's ignore...".

If a woman wants to move beyond what is 'normal' for her gender, why is it acceptable to discriminate against her?

It doesn't matter a bit whether 'normal' is biological in origin or cultural.

[axod]

No one has discriminated against anyone.

If it was an advert for a nursery assistant which said "Do you love acting all mommy to your kids?" etc no one would care either.

[crux_]

> No one has discriminated against anyone.

Then why are you spending so much effort arguing that it's acceptable to do so?

[axod]

Yeah. Because womens brains are exactly identical to mens brains.

Same with their bodies. In fact I can't tell men apart from women. They're biologically identical!

Have you actually had any interactions with real women?