[taoistextremist]

So, according to your article, 29% of Canadians had to wait 4 or more hours, whereas 24% of Americans did, so I'm not seeing much comparative improvements and I'd hypothesize that long ER wait times are not to do with which healthcare model you have, it has to do with misuse of ER. Meanwhile, France, Germany and the Netherlands all had outstanding numbers, and as far as I know they all have universal coverage.

[CountSessine]

So, according to your article, 29% of Canadians had to wait 4 or more hours, whereas 24% of Americans did

What? Where does it say that in the report? The figure is 24% of Americans and _56%_ of Canadians!

Patients who waited 4 weeks or longer to see a specialist, after they were advised or decided to see one in the last 2 years: Country results from highest to lowest

Canada, 56% (below average); Norway, 52%; New Zealand, 44%; Sweden, 42%; United Kingdom, 37%; Commonwealth Fund average, 36%; France, 36%; Australia, 35%; Germany, 25%; United States, 24%; Netherlands, 23%; Switzerland, 22%

Also, here's a quick guide to health insurance systems around the world. As a Canadian, I would urge all Americans to be extremely suspicious of the National Health Insurance model that Canada has. Wait lists are very real. The Bismarck model seem like a better fit for US culture and needs (still universal access).

http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/health_care_syste...

[cbhl]

Having used the ER twice in fifth grade in Canada, it seemed fine? Like, yes, sure you have to wait 12 hours to see a doctor if you're not bleeding out the chest. But also, I didn't have to face the prospect of paying $300 for a 15 minute consult, or going to jail to receive treatment.

If you have a cold, you find a PCP or a "health clinic" and make an appointment for same-day or later-that-week. And sure it's hard to find that PCP, but with my PCP in the US I have to book appointments three weeks in advance!

I'd argue "75%ile time waiting in the ER" is not a great metric. That neither tells you how easy it is you are to get preventative or routine treatment, nor how well your ER is able to handle a mass-shooting type catastrophe.

[citilife]

_Without insurance_ you can see a doctor in the U.S. for relatively cheap. I'm talking, $100 for a clinic visit. I've done it plenty of times for less.

The healthcare in the U.S. seems nuts because you are _billed_ for hundreds of dollars, but that's because they have to subsidize medicare patients AND insurance companies have negotiated rates based on percentages. So, they may only pay 40% of what is billed, but you are shown much more.

It's a scam everyone is involved in, which is why we need open pricing and open "how much insurance actually paid".

[cbhl]

Without insurance, a 15-minute consult in Canada is, like, $40 CAD. That's like $20 USD. Factor of 5x or 10x savings.