[porpoisely]

I think the H1B should be ended entirely. What incentive is there for corporations and the government to invest in its own people when they can just import workers. Not only that, it is unfair to others countries who lose workers. If these employees are so valuable then isn't almost evil to steal them from poor underdeveloped countries.

The idea that a nation of 350 million people can't supply the workers needed for the US economy is nonsense. What it really means is that corporations want to use foreign workers to cap wages. Or it could be that corporations and governments haven't done a good job developing the work force they needed. That's their problem, not the american people.

I can see a temporary workers program being useful after a catastrophic event like a world war where millions of your people are killed and you need to rebuild. But in peacetime, it's not needed.

[riantogo]

Historically US and its economy has benefited tremendously from immigration. In the modern world it continues to be a big edge. Anti-immigration mindset is also anti-American mindset. How about we revoke the citizenship of folks with such mindset and make way for a prosperous nation? Maybe we could let them cut in front of the line to earn back their citizenship with hard work after catastrophic events. I’m of course just using a far fetched example to make a point.

[porpoisely]

Firstly, you are repeating propaganda you've heard in the media that simply isn't true. From the founders til today, the US has been highly anti-immigration. Secondly, population growth may have been great for the US economy, but it has also been terrible for average american workers and minorities ( especially blacks and native americans ). Thirdly, we benefited far more economically from war, conquest, slavery, genocide, expansion and resources than from immigration. Just because something is good for the economy doesn't mean it's good or moral. And just because something was good in the past doesn't mean it is good today.

Having said that, I'm actually for immigration. But H-1B isn't immigration, no more than human trafficking is immigration.

Immigrants, like Jerry Yang and Sergei Brin, can start and own businesses. Do you know what H-1B visa holders are forbidden to do? They can't start or own businesses. Interesting huh? I laugh whenever pro-H-1B visas try to lie about how H-1B visas is the reason why Yahoo and Google exists. When H-1B explicitly prevent you from starting businesses. Had Yang and Brin be H-1B visa holders rather than being actual immigrant americans, they would not have been able to create yahoo and google.

So the H-1B visa was created so that foreign workers can compete against american workers, but not against american business owners. Isn't that great for business owners?

If you are for immigration, workers rights and plain fairness, then you'd be against H-1B visas because it's purely exploitation by billionaires so that billionaires can profit.

Why not do away with H-1B visas and shift it to real immigration ( which I support ) so that they have actual rights and can start businesses themselves and create jobs?

How about a non-exploitive and fair immigration policy rather than a exploitive non-immigration visa like H-1B? How about we let these foreign workers compete against both the billionaire owners and the workers? Why protect billionaires from competition and subject stressed american workers with more competition?

[riantogo]

There are big gaps in your understanding of what H1B is (it is dual intent). Most folks on that visa go on to become greencard holders and citizens. Several of them go on to create jobs (directly or indirectly).

And it is not like H1Bs are handed out like candy. There are caps, lottery, wage requirements, 6 months of advertising etc. (sure there is abuse like with anything else which should be addressed).

Also ironic that you come to a thread discussing how things like these rip apart families (and work against women) and try to take a higher moral position.

Your stand of, "I support immigration" doesn't sound sincere because you seem to imply that if we reclassify H1B to immigration-visa you will suddenly be supportive of it.

[albertoavila]

I want to address one of your points, I work here in the US under a work visa for a FAANG company. I disagree with your idea that it's somehow unfair/evil that I was "stolen" from my home country.

I decided to come work to the US, no one "stole me" from nowhere, and I don't think it's somewhat unfair to my home country that I decided to do so, just as the many immigrants I met and worked with back in my home country in the tech sector.

[thereisnospork]

> Not only that, it is unfair to others countries who lose workers. If these employees are so valuable then isn't almost evil to steal them from poor underdeveloped countries.

Then that would be a good thing, both for America and the workers. What is good for other countries isn't and shouldn't be a 1st-order design consideration for an American policy.

[lhorie]

> The idea that a nation of 350 million people can't supply the workers needed for the US economy is nonsense

What is the nation doing about it though? People that go to ivy league schools (and even not so elite schools) mostly are only able to afford it because they themselves have the financial means, whereas in many countries, top education is 100% government-subsidized.

Also, consider this: there's a thing called a PERM application, which involves advertising for a position for 6 months. The reality is that people getting green cards via H1B sponsorships do so after companies literally spend half a year looking for local talent, and at signicant cost (a I-140 application w/ premium processing costs the company $1400 and that's only one step in the green card process, and that's without counting lawyer fees.)

When high tech companies hire foreigners, it's not for lack of trying to find native talent

[turtlecloud]

Many people who study engineering decide to leave it because of the horrible working conditions caused by H1B.

[petilon]

>What incentive is there for corporations [...] to invest in its own people

Where does this obligation come from, especially considering most large corporations are multinational?

>The idea that a nation of 350 million people can't supply the workers needed for the US economy is nonsense.

For some jobs, a pulse is all you need. High Tech jobs are much more demanding. The US isn't producing enough engineers, this is well known. Even in universities, more than 50% of enrolled students are foreign born in STEM fields, see: https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...

[burfog]

You could say an obligation comes from the USA providing a legal framework and a market and the military force needed to dissuade others (countries, pirates, terrorists, etc.) from interfering too much.

No obligation is required however. The USA can just insist. This is what China does, notably, and China is not alone. Countries all around the world are forcing corporations to serve their people. That is kind of the point of a country, using the threat of force (prison, asset seizure, war, etc.) to serve a group of people.

[petilon]

Well then you should move to China, seeing as you prefer their system.

[ap3]

>Not only that, it is unfair to others countries who lose workers.

That is not how countries work - every other country can ennact their own policy

[httpz]

That's unfair to the smart talents born outside of the US.

[iceninenines]

There is currently no consistent incentives for global multinationals to invest locally when there's "always labor somewhere else." If you compelled local hiring, then the multinationals might stop giving locals the middle finger and invest in a country instead of strip-mining it into an impoverished favela. I don't want to get into divide-and-conquered, tribalism political malarkey, but the people have to push out the corporate corruption and get politicians working for We The People, not just We The Corporations. Without fixing the political system by rising up, the corporations will keep killing the middle class.

[fataliss]

There will always be "labor somewhere else". Have we not learned anything with all the industry moving out of the US and other developed countries? Corporations ALWAYS find a way to get the job done cheaper. Better? not always, but cheaper? Sure if they try enough they will! At least an H1B worker will pay taxes in the US and contribute to the life of the community they settle in, where some off shore contracting would be likely a net loss for the US.

[sundaeofshock]

Or better yet, give labor the same freedom of movement that capital has. Problem solved.