[nemesisj]

We work a 4 Day, 32 hour week, and have done so since 2015. During that time, our team grew from a small office of ~20 in Edinburgh to where we are today (3 offices in Edinburgh Scotland, Bozeman USA, and Beirut Lebanon) with about 80 people.

We have consistently been one of the fastest growing tech companies in Scotland (and in the UK). When we implemented the 4 day policy, we didn’t change our financial targets, or our team metrics. Instead, we explained it was an experiment that we wanted to run, and we believed that by being more efficient and more intentional about how we worked, we could still achieve our goals.

Turned out that was true.

Our motivation was primarily work/life balance, but also the realisation that most startups take 10-15 years to get to where they want to go, and we have a long journey ahead of us! It’s a marathon, not a sprint. We still pay a 5 day wage, and we actually “buy” all 5 days, because we wanted to make sure that team members weren’t tempted to moonlight on the 5th day.

Overall I think it’s been a really great thing for our team, and perhaps most importantly, I think we’ve proved that ambitious goals, hard work, and a strong drive to succeed is not at odds with a 4 day week. Over the last few years we’ve spent probably hundreds of hours talking with various organisations and the media about the benefits of the 4 day week, and I’m hopeful it’ll continue to catch on more and more.

[williamdclt]

1. how did you start the experiment? Did you apply it to everybody from the start or did you run it on a small sample?

2. What do you mean "buy all 5 days" and "moonlight on the 5th day"? (not a native speaker)

[nemesisj]

Good questions!

1. We started by doing some research, actually - I spent some time finding studies that supported my thesis that productivity would go up (thus making sure our output would stay the same, more or less). Then I discussed with our management team, who thought I was nuts, but was supportive. Then I presented it to our board, who was also supportive. We applied it to everyone at the start, but some teams took a bit longer to get it implemented, as one of our criteria was he had to maintain 5 day coverage for our customers (ie, some have Mondays off, some have Fridays, etc.). To this day we leave the coverage patterns and rotations up to each team/department to decide.

2. In our contracts, we are paying you for 40 hours of work, 5 days a week, but we give you one of them back. Moonlighting meaning working for another company "on the side".

[toomuchtodo]

> I spent some time finding studies that supported my thesis that productivity would go up (thus making sure our output would stay the same, more or less).

Are the research notes you put together to support your thesis publicly available?

[williamdclt]

Interesting!

I work in an agency so I don't think it would be easily applicable in my company (we bill by the day, not by the output), but I love hearing about experiments in companies! Most companies are so boring and afraid to do anything out of the ordinary

[ken]

What does "give you one of them back" mean, if it doesn't mean I can do what I want with that time?

[Aeolun]

They pay you for not working during that day. Without any requirement to be in the office to not work.

To be honest, it seems a bit disingenuous to me. A day off should be a day off. What I do with that time is nobodies business.

[sobani]

It is the business' business if you work hours 33-40 anyway. The whole point of the 32 hour workweek is the idea that those extra 8 hours decreases your productivity in the first 32.

Yes, it's still possible you'll work on a side gig / for someone else in the weekend, but that's much less likely than if you have business hours available for that.

[Aeolun]

I’d argue that outside of the time I’m being paid for, the business has zero influence over what I do with my life.

If I can spend my whole Monday night playing WoW, coming in completely destroyed the next morning, why couldn’t I do some personal work during the day on a Thursday and come in refreshed and happy on Friday.

[davefp]

In answer to 2:

Buying all 5 days means that they're employed and getting paid for that fifth day, but they have no work tasks. This is so that employees can't work a second job on that day, which would be 'moonlighting'.

[jpttsn]

How much do people work on average?

Would your CEO take a phone call from a client/lawyer/bank on the fifth day?

[nemesisj]

We try to keep it to 32 but the problem with good people who are high performers is they love to work! We try to emphasise that sure, at times you may need to burst a bit, and we do, but overtime is generally a failure of management. Either the managing team or managing ones workload. A lot of times when our managers notice overtime or more than 32 they look into the whys behind it.

Our CEO (me) does take phone calls and work a bit on the 5th day. I’m not the best example, but I don’t go into the office, and I try to limit it to important stuff that literally can’t wait. My travel schedule means I burn weekend days quite a bit but I do enjoy being on long haul flights where my phone doesn’t work. I’m a recovering workaholic and I do feel like it’s helped me personally put the brakes on a bit.

The funny thing is, when I’m off on my 5th day and enjoying a hobby or something I often get very creative ideas about the business popping into my thoughts. And I think that shouldn’t be surprising bc that’s how our minds work - we can’t be slaves to a hustle porn mentality and do our best work.

Anyway. We and myself aren’t perfect, but we do try to adhere to the spirit of the idea as best we can.

[GordonS]

A bit off-topic, but why Lebanon?

[solatic]

Additionally, Lebanon makes me wonder if there's a confounding factor here. Lebanon being a Muslim-majority country, many Lebanese take at least part of Friday off as part of their weekend. Having a standard three-day weekend company-wide might sidestep issues of UK/US workers wanting to meet on Fridays when Lebanese workers are unavailable, and Lebanese workers wanting to meet on Saturdays when UK/US workers are unavailable. This prevents people from being in the office on a Friday or Saturday and twiddling their thumbs while waiting for input from somebody in another country with a different weekend standard.

[nemesisj]

Actually Lebanon is not a Muslim majority country (demographically it now is but politically no - power is shared between Christians and Muslims ) and they work a standard M-F week, unlike the gulf. We based in Lebanon for our Middle East operation because we liked Beirut better than Dubai, it’s cheaper, the talent is great, and we had some founding customers there (a bit strange but go figure). It’s been a great decision for us and we hope we’re helping throw off the stigma of Beirut being a war torn city just s little bit.