[dpkrjb]

I've become a particular fan of oat milk over the past couple of years. It's one of the more difficult milk substitutes to find in at restaurants the UK (coffee places usually fair better), almond and soy are relatively common. There are varieties that also froth up really well that barristas now use.

I'm a particular fan of the price point. Being from the UK I can assume that any almond milk I drink would be made from almonds from another country, it's same with the coconut oil I use for cooking. So I am willing to accept some price inflation in order to remove dairy. But oat milk tastes much nicer and would probably get whittled down to a generic price point that beats any other milk substitute because it can be grown locally (almost anywhere in fact) and cheaply.

[benj111]

I don't think its locality that makes oat milk cheap. Oats are cheap. Nuts tend to be expensive, even domestically grown ones.

Oats you can plant and harvest in a season, entirely mechanically. An almond tree, you have to wait years before it starts producing, a few more years to hit peak production, and harvesting isn't nearly so automated.

[Spooky23]

What motivates you to eliminate dairy?

[ajaxaddicted]

Not OP, the reasons for eliminating diary are so many - cholesterol, hormones( most notably estrogen), IGF1 which is cancer promoting, antibiotics, casein morphine( which makes milk products addicting), the dairy industry is extremely cruel and the huge environmental impact due to all the resources needed to bring up a cow

[amluto]

I find this list highly amusing. You’ve listed quite a few barely-supported-by-evidence reasons, but you’ve missed the two big reasons that are big deals to a lot of people: lactose intolerance and allergy.

Most adults worldwide are lactose intolerant, although symptoms and the amount of lactose needed to trigger symptoms vary. And allergies to milk aren’t particularly rare.

In Scandinavia, most cafes seem to offer lactose-free milk, which is a great option for lactose-intolerant people. It’s also amusing, since Scandinavia has the lowest incidence of lactose intolerance anywhere. For milk allergies, oat milk is obviously a better choice.

FWIW, I think that foods like ice cream should always use lactose-free or at least lactose-reduced milk. It’s nutritionally identical but sweeter, so ice cream and such can be made with less sugar.

[ajaxaddicted]

Some sources to back up my claims

the industry and how cruel it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

hormones in dairy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/

casomorphine https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095528631...

igf1 and cancer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15562834/

and saturated fat https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20071648/

the Environmental impact https://academic.oup.com/jas/article/87/6/2160/4731307

[amluto]

I didn't say your claims were wrong. I said that they were poorly supported and that you ignore the two much larger reasons that large numbers of people avoid dairy.

As an example of the lack of support:

> igf1 and cancer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15562834/

I read the abstract. It suggests that circulating levels of IGF-1 may be related to cancer. It does not say that drinking IGF-1 is related to cancer or that milk contains absorbable IGF-1. In fact, I found one study that determined that IGF-1 in milk is broken down during digestion and that mechanism by which various dairy products might impact blood IGF-1 levels are unknown.

So I maintain my claim that all the reasons you listed are poorly supported. In contrast, the fact that most people do not have the lactase persistence trait and end up lactose intolerant as adults is very well supported indeed. Similarly, I know people who have done genuine lab tests and determined that they have bona fide IgE-mediated milk allergies. Apparently some people also have non-IgE-mediated immune reactions to milk. Of all of these, among adults, lactose intolerance is far and away the most common issue with dairy products.

BTW:

> the industry and how cruel it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

If you want to drink milk or eat cheese that is cruelty-free, there are quite a few purveyors in Northern California that have cows that are very happy indeed. If you ever want to feel jealous of a cow's living conditions, just drive near any of the dairies in Point Reyes. Some of them offer tours, and others will let you just drop by and say hi to the cows. I'm sure there are plenty of places like this outside Northern CA, too. Obviously, you'll pay a bit more for this milk, although, the cheese doesn't seem to carry much, if any premium. I suspect the latter is related to the reduced costs of being a Class B dairy that produces cheese in house.

[ajaxaddicted]

If you want to drink milk or cheese that is cruelty-free, you drink a plant based milk and eat plant based cheeses.

Just because there are a couple of cows that might look like they are living the dream cow life (for 4 years out of 20, because they don't produce enough milk to be economically viable and kept alive after that) and still the calves have to murdered early on to get all that milk (it is originally made for calve consumption, not people).

IGF1 and cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743390

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27737962

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12588089

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113287

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19142965

[Dimtree]

I think you're missing the most common reason. Up to 65% of the global population is lactose intolerant to a degree.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance

[lawlorino]

As a counterpoint that's not uniformly distributed globally, the incidence is much lower in Northern Europe including UK where OP is from.

[Dimtree]

As a counter-counterpoint, you assume OP's ethnicity is Northern European just because he lives in the UK.

[n4r9]

That might be the most common reason globally, but not necessarily in the UK where only 5% are intolerant. Many of those can tolerate small amounts such as you'd put in tea/coffee.

[dragonwriter]

Lactose-free dairy products are readily available.

[specialist]

Ditto. Plus I like variety.

Right now, I'm digging coffee w/ coconut cream & turmeric.

Yerba mate w/ soy milk somehow works great.

I was hooked on London Fog's for a while, earl grey tea w/ foamed milk.

Etc.

[mangoleaf]

For men over 45, there is a correlation between milk and BPH (enlarged prostate and difficulty in urination). Farmers inject hormones (and other things), and the animal produces its own. All of these excrete into the milk causing irritation to the prostate and the resulting enlargement causes difficulty in urination. Same problem with whey protein powders and cheese. BUT! If the item is cooked, then there does not seem to be an effect. [1]

[1] http://vqrn.com/Prostate-Milk-Problem.html

[dpkrjb]

I realised I was slightly sensitive to lactose although I can digest some without any issues