[amluto]

I find this list highly amusing. You’ve listed quite a few barely-supported-by-evidence reasons, but you’ve missed the two big reasons that are big deals to a lot of people: lactose intolerance and allergy.

Most adults worldwide are lactose intolerant, although symptoms and the amount of lactose needed to trigger symptoms vary. And allergies to milk aren’t particularly rare.

In Scandinavia, most cafes seem to offer lactose-free milk, which is a great option for lactose-intolerant people. It’s also amusing, since Scandinavia has the lowest incidence of lactose intolerance anywhere. For milk allergies, oat milk is obviously a better choice.

FWIW, I think that foods like ice cream should always use lactose-free or at least lactose-reduced milk. It’s nutritionally identical but sweeter, so ice cream and such can be made with less sugar.

[ajaxaddicted]

Some sources to back up my claims

the industry and how cruel it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

hormones in dairy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/

casomorphine https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095528631...

igf1 and cancer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15562834/

and saturated fat https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20071648/

the Environmental impact https://academic.oup.com/jas/article/87/6/2160/4731307

[amluto]

I didn't say your claims were wrong. I said that they were poorly supported and that you ignore the two much larger reasons that large numbers of people avoid dairy.

As an example of the lack of support:

> igf1 and cancer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15562834/

I read the abstract. It suggests that circulating levels of IGF-1 may be related to cancer. It does not say that drinking IGF-1 is related to cancer or that milk contains absorbable IGF-1. In fact, I found one study that determined that IGF-1 in milk is broken down during digestion and that mechanism by which various dairy products might impact blood IGF-1 levels are unknown.

So I maintain my claim that all the reasons you listed are poorly supported. In contrast, the fact that most people do not have the lactase persistence trait and end up lactose intolerant as adults is very well supported indeed. Similarly, I know people who have done genuine lab tests and determined that they have bona fide IgE-mediated milk allergies. Apparently some people also have non-IgE-mediated immune reactions to milk. Of all of these, among adults, lactose intolerance is far and away the most common issue with dairy products.

BTW:

> the industry and how cruel it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

If you want to drink milk or eat cheese that is cruelty-free, there are quite a few purveyors in Northern California that have cows that are very happy indeed. If you ever want to feel jealous of a cow's living conditions, just drive near any of the dairies in Point Reyes. Some of them offer tours, and others will let you just drop by and say hi to the cows. I'm sure there are plenty of places like this outside Northern CA, too. Obviously, you'll pay a bit more for this milk, although, the cheese doesn't seem to carry much, if any premium. I suspect the latter is related to the reduced costs of being a Class B dairy that produces cheese in house.

[ajaxaddicted]

If you want to drink milk or cheese that is cruelty-free, you drink a plant based milk and eat plant based cheeses.

Just because there are a couple of cows that might look like they are living the dream cow life (for 4 years out of 20, because they don't produce enough milk to be economically viable and kept alive after that) and still the calves have to murdered early on to get all that milk (it is originally made for calve consumption, not people).

IGF1 and cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743390

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27737962

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12588089

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113287

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19142965