[johnvanommen]

Once Jaguar, Porsche and Audi are able to produce electric cars in quantity, things are going to get interesting. For instance, I was recently looking at the Jaguar I-Pace, and was stunned by how long the wait and how high the markups are. Clearly there's a demand for a $100,000 electric car, but things are going to get difficult for Tesla once the competition arrives.

[luckydata]

Competition has been arriving for quite a while though. Having just bought a Tesla, I can tell you I'm starting to appreciate more than just intellectually the huge network of chargers and other infrastructure that company has laid out. It's not perfect but anyone else wanting to play in this market will need the same, and Jaguar is in no position to do it. I don't think anyone at Tesla is losing any sleep over Jaguar TBH but they might be looking intensely towards Toyota.

[gamblor956]

I live in a nice part of LA and I see as many iPace's as Teslas, and the iPace has only been available for about 3 months locally.

And the iPace owners are absolutely glowing in their reviews of the car in a way I've never heard Tesla owners get. Indeed--while most Tesla owners I know talk their heads off about the charging network[1], they tend to be defensive about the actual quality of the car itself in ways that luxury car buyers shouldn't be.

[1] While Tesla has a geographically large charging network, it's density is pretty horrible. In DTLA for example, you're 9 miles away from the closest Supercharger, and condo/apartment dwellers are SOL for installing their own unless they want to pay excessive fees to have one installed in their parking spot. There are a number of standard EV chargers through the downtown area, and the number of non-Tesla chargers exceeds the number of Tesla-only chargers by a factor of at least 10:1.

[luckydata]

We must be living on a different planet then if you never heard a Tesla owner go on and on about how much they love their cars. Before buying one 4 days ago I had plenty of that kind of experience.

[gamblor956]

I know quite a few Tesla owners, and they all love the idea of the car far more than the actual cars themselves. After about a week, reality sets in and the misaligned panels, haphazardly responsive touchscreen, and relatively pedestrian interior furnishings start becoming noticeable. After about 2 weeks, the Tesla owners who don't live in homes (i.e., condo/apartment dwellers) even start to get annoyed at the charging cycle, since the Superchargers in the LA area are not very convenient to get to and it's roughly $10k-$20k (per charger) to get a charger installed in their parking structure. One Tesla owner, who evangelized the car before buying it, eventually sold his Model 3 (one of the first sold to the general public) and, in his words, "upgraded" to the iPace.

Also, I've ridden in all of the Teslas (including the Roadsters, thanks to a former boss who collected cars) and the Model 3, while comfortable enough, is only roughly as comfortable as my Camry and certainly isn't as comfortable as the $65k+ cars other friends drive. IMO, this is Tesla's big problem. Their cars are expensive, but you're paying a lot of money for the brand and while that can get you started, in the auto market you eventually have to start competing based on features like comfort, etc.

[zaroth]

As a Model 3 owner, I have never been happier or more impressed with any car I have ever driven.

It’s more fun to drive than my old Camero SS. It’s more comfortable than my old Infiniti. I absolutely love the interior aesthetic. And I just paid $3,500 to PPF wrap it because I think it’s absolutely gorgeous and I want to keep it looking that way.

Oh, and I paid $45k not $65k, and it saves me at least $100 a month on top of that.

You are blowing smoke with “roughly as comfortable as a Camry”. The ride quality is better than BMW in my opinion, and that’s before throwing in the mental benefits of Autopilot combined with no engine noise making my commute the most peaceful part of my day.

[gamblor956]

I rode in a Model 3 several times this past weekend and my Camry 3 all this week. They are absolutely on par comfort-wise. Can't compare to an Infiniti since I've never ridden in one, but the Model 3 can't hold a candle to the Lexus's, BMW's, or Audi's I've ridden in.

[luckydata]

Where did you do the wrap? I can't find a shop that carries the cutout for the Model 3. Bay area?

[luckydata]

I have a Model 3 and I don't know WTH are you talking about. It's a great car. Panel gaps are just a little too wide for my taste in the rear doors but you rapidly forget about it when you're behind the wheel. Best car I've ever driven hands down.

[matthewdgreen]

I'm confused about this entire line of argument. You're saying that people can't get chargers installed in their condos, so their solution is to switch to another electric car that also requires a charger?

[FireBeyond]

I was in a Jaguar dealership this weekend, and the iPace, though I have no intention of getting one, is a VERY nice car. Build quality. Features. Specs.

[dmode]

Tesla has the highest consumer satisfaction rating and brand loyalty of any car maker [1]

[1] https://electrek.co/2017/12/21/tesla-tsla-tops-customer-sati...

[anthonybsd]

I suspect Model 3 will change all that, unfortunately :(

[gibolt]

Evidence? Most Model S and 3 owners I've heard prefer the ride of the 3.

[anthonybsd]

There are obviously no official survey numbers, but there are a lot of indicators that point to the fact that rushed production for Model 3 resulted in quality control issues:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/the-biggest-problems...

[davidgould]

> While Tesla has a geographically large charging network, it's density is pretty horrible. In DTLA for example, you're 9 miles away from the closest Supercharger

That's sort of the point, the Supercharger network is designed to facilitate long distance travel. So the stations are spread out along highways. The other networks are bunched up in cities. Try using plugshare.com to plan a trip using CCS chargers vs Superchargers. Say San Francisco to Portland, or Denver to Dallas, or LA to New York.

[Rapzid]

Only path forward is to share the market. Japan and Europe will enter the market in a big way without the logistics friction Tesla is so often in the news for.

But yes... I expect Toyota to have more affordable TCO, particularly on the maintenance side where Tesla gets ripped often. The will need to adjust to be competitive outside the luxury market.

[twblalock]

Other brands have dealerships all over the country where they could install chargers. I'd say the barrier to doing that is pretty low.

For example, if every BMW or Audi dealership had some charging spots for owners of their cars, it would probably have more nationwide coverage than Tesla's Supercharger network. The dealerships are also frequently located in convenient places near major highway exits, etc.

[luckydata]

You don't go charge a car to a dealership though. I charged mine yesterday in the parking structure next to the mall in Colma while getting ice cream with my son. Sorry but no, that's not a valid suggestion.

[twblalock]

I'm assuming most electric car owners would charge their cars at home and make use of Superchargers/dealership chargers on road trips.

Being able to charge at your local shopping center is nice but it's not a necessity for electric car ownership.

[newnewpdro]

I think you're underestimating the proportion of potential EV owners in situations which preclude charging at home.

[gibolt]

*Could

Even if people wanted to charge at dealerships, dealerships aren't incentivized to sell electric cars, much less charge them.

The proof is that any Chevy dealer that sells the Bolt should have a public charger already, but I'm guessing few do.

[mulmen]

I live in Seattle, east of here there is one BMW dealer on my way home and next closest BMW dealer is in Boise, Idaho. I can’t drive to my home town and visit a dealership. That means an electric BMW would need a range of 1,000-1,200 miles to be remotely comparable to an ICE car or Tesla.

Putting universal chargers at existing gas stations or buying an entire brand and converting to charging makes way more sense.

[alonmower]

Gas stations are obviously a great place for chargers because they're already properly distributed along well travelled routes. I think there's probably going to be a market for either an existing restaurant coffee chain with a lot of existing real estate (or perhaps a new chain that's a bit more upscale) to partner with Tesla and any of the other electric car manufacturers and build a concept around high quality food with quick turn around (like order ahead and eat in under the time it takes your car to charge). Gas stations as they currently exist can be pretty bleak places to spend 30 minutes

[reaperducer]

Chevron stations in Las Vegas have EV chargers. Of course, they also have tiny casinos, so there's something to do while your car charges.

[johnvanommen]

There are five BMW dealerships in Washington, including three within 30 miles of Seattle:

* Seattle

* Bellevue

* Fife

[FireBeyond]

Except for the BMW dealership in Yakima you mean?

Or if you go via PDX.

[mulmen]

PDX is the opposite direction of my part of Idaho from Seattle. Taking that route would add hundreds of miles.

The dealer in the tri cities or Yakima is out of the way and the one in Spokane would add a couple hours of driving time.

There are no dealers on the direct route home for me. Realistically I could only stop at one.

[dmode]

Chevy Bolt was supposed to end Tesla as well. Didn't really happen, did it ?

[Green_man]

The model 3 was supposed to compete with the Bolt on price- that didn't really happy either (yet), did it?

[johnvanommen]

Today there was a discussion on HN about "Sears vs Amazon."

And comparing the Tesla Model 3 to a Chevy Bolt is very similar!

For instance, Tesla is prepared to sell their cars at a loss, to gain market share. Amazon had the same strategy twenty years ago. Sears was never willing to do that, and Chevy wasn't going to do that with the Bolt either.

I like the Bolt - it's a very nice car. But the Model 3 seems to offer so much more for the money.

[DoubleCribble]

The Volt didn't do it. The Bolt couldn't either. Perhaps they're working on the Chevy Molt? (the first car wrapped in OLED!)

[DoubleCribble]

There were big markups on the reintroduced Ford Thunderbird, too.[0] Sales tanked after the first year and it was out of production 4 years later.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Thunderbird_(eleventh_gen...

[dmode]

Chevy Bolt and Leaf have been available for a long time and had zero impact on Tesla

[Nursie]

The i-Pace makes me drool far more than Tesla... but it's going to be a while before I can afford either so it's rather a moot point!