[cauldron]

Pretty sure all those Chinese high-tech factories' robots are either bought from Germany, japan, or Taiwan.

Don't get me wrong, Chinese do manufacture these robots too，but from the Chinese news reports I've read, the durability just isn't there, and they relies on either Germany or Japan for key parts.

[lb1lf]

Just about any nation which has undergone large-scale industrialisation started off copying someone else.

Swiss watches? Developed by British and French watchmakers escaping religious persecution in their home countries.

Japanese cameras and other consumer electronics? Started off as cheap knock-offs of Western products.

You learn a lot from importing technology and using it to copy stuff until you reach a level of skill where you realise you can do this just as well as the original makers.

That is the point where you start looking into other barriers to market share - like poor QC, dodgy reputation etc. (Also, that is probably the point where you start designing and building your own assembly lines, too.)

[inferiorhuman]

Camera-wise the Japanese and the Soviets got a bunch of tech from the Germans after WW2. I'm sure the Chinese can (and probably will) eventually get to the point where their manufacturing is highly regarded. To some extent that's already happened as the lowest quality tier manufacturing is being shifted to India and Vietnam.

But precision manufacturing is extremely difficult. There were a couple comments musing about aviation stuff. Let's put it this way. Russia is very good at certain types of manufacturing (e.g. rockets) to the point that NASA uses Russian rockets to launch its satellites. Russia (and Ukraine) have a ton of experience manufacturing airplanes (military and airliners). More recently, Sukhoi even managed to churn out a highly competitive, well received regional jet (the Superjet 100). Yet sales are lagging while Bombardier and Embraer dominate that market. Reliability is almost there, but there's next to no support. Without a support network you're dead in the water. To that end it appears that the Russians are taking this far more seriously than I'd expect the Chinese to. So beyond just manufacturing the part, there are cultural issues to overcome.

The Japanese are another example. Most people in this thread probably hold Japanese manufacturing in high regard (and for good reason). However, take a look at Mitsubishi. They're attempting to get in on the regional jet market as well. However, they're basically dead in the water and may end up scrapping the whole project. While there is a Japanese aviation industry, and Boeing partners heavily with some Japanese companies, the Japanese have never built a jet airliner and airliners are simply that complex.

So, sure, we'll eventually see more Chinese cars and higher quality Chinese consumer electronics. Sooner than later even. Aviation stuff? Maybe, but potentially not in my lifetime.

[cauldron]

Passenger jet is not only a matter of wether you can produce it, what's most important is wether it's cheap to fly, otherwise no one other than Chinese state airliners would buy it.

[cauldron]

I'm simply pointing out a fact, which isn't my imagination, I've worked in Japanese high tech PCB plant in China and saw first hand what the reality is, according to the Chinese who went to the company's Japan operation to study, the Japanese made better products using older equipment.

Chinese bullet train technology was bascially bought from Germany and Japan, and I've read mutiple times that they know how to manufacture it by designs (still rely on those two for some key parts), but don't know how to improve it coz don't know why.

But the propaganda made it sound like China invented it, and it's so advanced.

[lb1lf]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't try to say you were wrong, just to elaborate a bit on your observation.

Anecdotally, once we had a couple of Chinese auditors in the workshop (Scandinavia) to assess the quality of a delivery we were about to make to a Chinese government agency.

Once they were satisfied that key parts - motors, pumps, power electronics - were made anywhere but China, they really only had two further questions - 'Where do we sign?' and 'When is lunch?'

[mondoshawan]

And the vast majority of the manufacturing work (SMT, FATP, etc) in China is still done by hand at factory cities like QSMC.

Quality control is left up to the customer's oversight into the Factory's processes, and factory materials such as test fixtures or robots are usually bodged together using equipment that is so far out of whack with the task, its tantamount to using a sledgehammer as a pair of tweezers. I have literally seen SMT assembly work being done with a chisel soldering tip that is nearly five times larger than the components being soldered.

You want robots? Be prepared to write the software to drive them yourself and provide the hardware. Its nuts.

[sct202]

With or without the robots, it still comes down to process control which isn't a real concern by a lot of the fly-by-night suppliers in China.

[cauldron]

They want to make money, and make it fast, when you ask them whether they can produce it, they are not gonna let the business slip away.

Don't know it? Hire someone. No equipment? Borrow or lease. No plant? Find one. Still can't make it? Place an order to someone who can.