Because they aren’t “just” as barbarous and cruel.
Violations of civil liberties occur in every country, but If you really believe that the rate and intensity of such is exactly the same in the UK as it is in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you’re monumentally deluded.
On the intensity you certainly have a point, but on rate, I was recently surprised to see that between 2016 and 2017 there were 970 recorded offenses in England and Wales relating to a 2009 law criminalizing production or possession of a category of Japanese hentai manga. Agree with the law or not, that's a huge number, especially for a topic which is, to the say the least, vigorously debated. For comparison, a similar law in the U.S. was stricken down as unconstitutional (to my knowledge) in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Alliance.
Did the UK/US not invade Iraq/Afghanistan, are we not still there? How many governments have we overthrown? How many people have we unjustly imprisoned/killed?
It's not a 1 to 1 type comparison but in my mind it's hard to imagine the US wasn't the most cruel or barbarous civilization in the past 80 years or so.
Noam Chomsky: “Remember the worst terrorist campaign in the world by far is the one that’s being orchestrated in Washington. That’s the global assassination campaign. There’s never been a terrorist campaign of that scale.”
Just because the West is not 100% perfect doesn't mean that both are the same.
You have tons of appeals in US, UK and other Western countries and judges are (at least in USA) super educated and independent. You can be SCREWED if you're poor, the state is hellbent of jailing you and no one takes up your cause but odds of something like the above happening in US or UK are close to zero.
Federal judges, at least in USA, love to keep their independence and to hold the state's feet at the fire. They are a third and SEPARATE branch, in 99% of cases taking a pay reduction to serve.
I agree that there are very unpleasant aspects of western democracies. But to say that, for example, the UK is as cruel and barbaric as Saudi Arabia is overheated rhetoric.
It wasn't very different 70ish years ago. I don't get why folks think that the West is a stellar beacon of freedom; it is quite possible for conditions to relapse to the period of the British Empire, for example.
You're looking for an argument that I don't want to have by taking what I said and twisting it to include historical aspects of those democracies when that clearly wasn't what was being talked about. I'm aware of the horrific histories of many Western democracies, including the UK (empire), Belgium (Congo), Germany (Holocaust) etc. The parent comment was comparing present-day nation states, which is overheated.
I agree. I wonder how many of the people that disagree are people of color who do not come from high ses. our prison industry (3 strikes for non violent crimes, people spending years in jail for minor crimes, arrest quotas) and police homocides against unarmed black and disabled people puts us right up there with them.
Violations of civil liberties occur in every country, but If you really believe that the rate and intensity of such is exactly the same in the UK as it is in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you’re monumentally deluded.