[exabrial]

#3 could also be solved by not having the government back student loans and allow creditors to decide risk on things like your major, your GPA, or your class attendance record, but that would be insanely politically incorrect. Essentially you're either given an amount that your career will pay for, or you have to choose a major that will pay for an amount that you desire.

[kevinali1]

I'd call this shitty, but certainly not politically incorrect.

[DrJones1098]

Education is one of the most important things a country needs to keep a free society, educated workforce, and booming economy...

Why capitalism is involved I have no idea.

Ignorant people favor simple political messages...which is one reason certain groups of politicians put education immediately on the chopping block.

[cinquemb]

It will be great when individuals learn to not conflate institutionalized schooling with education; they may overlap in the best of times, but stick you with a raw deal if one is made to think they must take out a bunch of un-dischargable debt in order to pursue knowledge…

Though that will never happen, masses of people will always seek the easy solutions that fill the void, and opportunists will be willing to sell them it along the way.

[Retric]

It’s really not about education it’s about credentials.

Workers who can decide to stop playing that game.

[cinquemb]

> It’s really not about education it’s about credentials.

Credentialisim, yes, even better…

The trite Robin Hanson argument goes "X is not actually about X", where here X is education.[0]

>It’s really not workers who can decide to stop playing that game.

It's about people making choices. A lot of people choosing to go in debt without realistic options to pay it off, a lot of people thinking un-dishcharable debt by the federal government is a good thing, and a lot of people thinking they must enforce the above because reasons.

[0] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2016/04/who-wants-school.html

[Retric]

Interesting, but it’s missing the human factor. People that gather credentials have incentives to make them more important.

You can look at how quickly the MBA took off as a product of many things. But a huge factor is MBA programs convincing people taking them to higher other MBA’s.

Or how lawyers have made it illegal for people without the right credentials from practicing law.

[cinquemb]

> missing the human factor.

because reasons addresses this, each individual reason given is not really that important to understand what can come from it over time.

> Or how lawyers have made it illegal for people without the right credentials from practicing law.

This might be true now, and for when it comes to representing others that are not yourself, but this does not have to remain true.

[nickthemagicman]

That's why universities should be socialized.

Knowledge and credentials to better oneself and the economy at large should be available to anyone who is willing to put in the work.

Intellectual capital of a countries citizens is the best investment of tax money there can be.

[cinquemb]

And many years later when an increasingly non productive citizens can no longer be expected to reasonably shoulder the tax burden, when governments can no longer borrow agaisnt the future, the piper will be paid… but somehow, this time is different… yawn…

[nickthemagicman]

I think that's cynical. Even if it's about the degree you gain alot of benefits along the way.

That's like saying people work ONLY for the money.

[nickthemagicman]

Yeah but most people don't have the environment growing up to appreciate learning and knowledge.

Learning itself is a skill...and University teaches you how to learn and to appreciate knowledge...no matter what degree you get you're better off afterwards.

It's sad the capitalistic cynicism about University these days.

I have a feeling it's going to hurt us massively in the long run.

[cinquemb]

> Learning itself is a skill...and University teaches you how to learn and to appreciate knowledge

True that learning is a skill. University is not the only place people can "learn to learn", it is one option out of innumerable many that people can think of if they can so dare to imagine.

>...no matter what degree you get you're better off afterwards.

I think some people would question this when they get to the point where they are destitute trying to pay off loans that they can't discharge, which I'm not sure how capitalist non discharagble loans are. Usually, a lendee being able to default on a loan is the risk lenders take when underwriting…

> I have a feeling it's going to hurt us massively in the long run.

I disagree with that statement, the church (like universities are now) use to be a massive powerful force that acted as a gate keeper to knowledge, and over time, became mostly irrelevant to such ends…

[DrJones1098]

>University is not the only place people can "learn to learn.

I disagree. There are no institutions in modern capitalism that teach you how to learn if you don't already know how. It's extremely rare for them to even train you in skills they need if you already KNOW how to learn.

>think some people would question this when they get to the point where they are destitute trying to pay off loans

Hence my original point...

> Claiming that universities are a gate keeper to knowledge in the age of the internet...

You are missing the point of universities and basically everything I've just said.

[cinquemb]

> I disagree. There are no institutions in modern capitalism that teach you how to learn if you don't already know how. It's extremely rare for them to even train you in skills they need if you already KNOW how to learn.

Man, how did people ever learn to do anything before institutions arise? Oh yes, the glorious institutions of spear making and rock chucking.

> Hence my original point...

Calling something capitalist when it is not? Seems like a straw man… no matter what the institution, perverse incentives will corrupt it if left unchecked, society will either put a bullet to its head, or make it irrelevant in the long run except to the most ardent believers.

> > Claiming that universities are a gate keeper to knowledge in the age of the internet... You are missing the point of universities and basically everything I've just said.

I said nothing about the internet, you added that.

I'm sure there were priests proselytizing in the past to others about the point of the Church in the pursuit of knowledge…

[hopefulengineer]

you've romanticized higher education into something it's never been. It started off as a means for the children of the wealthy to network and show off that they were wealthy enough to waste years of their lives learning information with no practical value like Latin. Actual useful skills required for society to function were learned on the job

The most logical and efficient option is for the government to subsidize some open source books for crucial topics and then provide a testing and credential system to prove knowledge on said topic.

[exabrial]

Both of the two things you mention are great ideas, but don't necessarily require a state actor. It could be a good thing for a state to kick of and get the ball rolling.