[mrtksn]

Are there examples of great companies that actually started selling before building the product?

From Google to Facebook, all the companies that I've ever researched seems to be based on people fiddling with ideas and then quickly iterate to the direction when they start getting traction.

Sure, there are crowdfunding sites or established companies selling based on CGI drawings or concept videos but this seems to be not the rule but the exception for the products that I use. What seems to be the rule is that people have some ideas, they build MVPs and fast-iterate or pivot based on the reception.

For the b2c, at least... Anyway, the article is probably talking about b2b where it can be O.K. to start with some slides of value propositions and build the thing later because of the selling process taking moths and the implementation, potentially years.

edit: hmm, maybe I am taking the "selling" a bit too literally.

[0xferruccio]

Google and Facebook are moonshots by extremely talented people. I don’t know about you, but I have no close to zero chances of building something similar.

It’s wiser to be realistic, find problems businesses have, understand them better than anyone else and try to solve them.

EG. some dropshipping platforms don’t have integrations with some e-commerce platforms, interview dropshippers and build the ones they’d need. It might not be fancy, but it works. I respect this more than people that try and change the world with a new decentralised web 3.0 no one will ever use

EDIT: you added a reference that your thoughts are for B2C. But Facebook and Google are B2B, the Cs are the product

[mrtksn]

So, are there any examples of something that started with the selling first building later?

Sure, for a small operation that is not particularly innovative you can do that. You can first sell someone a house and later build it but I am not aware of a product that made it big by consulting the potential users without having a product(MVP or even a POC) in hand. Usually, it seems, people start with a product that they have some kind of awareness of its purpose and value, measure the reactions and iterate it thereafter.

I mean, if selling first and building later is the right way to do a start-up, there must be people who actually succeeded with their start-ups by selling first and building later but I'm yet to hear about one.

[0xferruccio]

Oracle to the CIA.

Also I don’t think there is a right way of doing a startup, there’s no guide you can follow or rules. What I’m saying is that addressing real problems and talking with people that have the authority and budget to address them before building something seems like a good way to minimize risk for b2b ventures.

[mrtksn]

>Oracle to the CIA.

I was unable to confirm it.

Anyway the advice of sell first build later and talk to customers sound very smart, it's just that it I don't see much of success stories based on that process.

On the other hand, build something basic, put it in front of the people, measure and iterate based on the measurements have so many examples. Like pretty much everything out there.

So yes, the stuff on the article sound smart but is it?

[0xferruccio]

Tuft and Needle started selling with a fake landing page to validate their idea.

Once they got their first sale for a mattress they started working on the company. (source: their indiehackers interview)

Hotjar started a super successful referral campaign before having a working product.

Pietr Levels validated features with a fake credit card form to see if people would pay for some membership.

And there are countless other examples. Building a landing page that explains the product or a proof of concept isn’t building the product, if something can help you give the idea of what you have in mind build it.

[mrtksn]

Cool, thank you!

I think I took the "selling" word a bit too literally.

[mrtksn]

>you added a reference that your thoughts are for B2C. But Facebook and Google are B2B, the Cs are the product

It still holds though, they had the product(the users) first. They did not start as companies that figured out that they need users by first selling ad spaces to companies and talking to them. They had something valuable in hand(usres) and iterated the business models through the years.

[notyourday]

Facebook was created to solve Mark's problem of accessing a pipeline of hot girls to sleep with. It grew because while solving his problem he solved the exactly same type of problem the other people had, including the hot girls who needed a pipeline to pretty boys/jocks/nerds/etc to sleep with.

The clean product we currently know came much later.