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by utopcell 2791 days ago
Not sure I agree that the Macbook is "an inferior machine at a higher price". At 12", it is the only <13" offering currently.
4 comments

Seriously. I just bought one for travel and loaded it with ram and I couldn’t be happier.
>and I couldn’t be happier.

Even with the keyboard? May I ask how fast you type (roughly) and whether you use it much for text input (such as emails) or programming?

I also recently bought one (~3 months ago?). My main reason for getting the machine was the small weight and size. I'm a fairly small person with small hands and like to travel extremely light for work (which is very often).

The keyboard was my biggest concern since I've been touch typing most of my life.

The v2 butterfly keyboard are a marked improvement over the first gen. The first gen was very difficult for me to type on due to the small key travel -- it felt like I was typing on glass.

With the second gen, I did a lot of in-store testing and speed tests. My speed only dropped to like 80-something WPM from my normal ~100 wpm. Within a few hours of owning the machine, I was pretty much back to full. (Their return policy is also something to keep in mind if the keyboard concerns you)

It increasingly has become quite possibly my favorite keyboard ever. I'm even unashamed to say that I prefer it over my mechanical keyboards. Never thought I'd say that about a laptop keyboard. Obviously down to personal preference.

I'd say if you haven't tried the v2 butterfly keyboards (can't speak to the v3), try to give them a test with an open mind. Do a couple typing tests. Type as close to normal as possible (both speed and subject).

> whether you use it much for text input (such as emails) or programming

I use it extensively (>8 hours a day) for programming, emails, and chat. The only thing I don't really do with it is play games (not exactly a gaming machine).

For some added background, I also used an Acer Aspire One 522e netbook running Linux for a few years (this was a while ago), so I definitely have some abnormal tastes when it comes to daily driver machines.

Overall, the only thing I'd change about this laptop is I'd swap out the headphone jack for another USB-C port, but even that isn't that big of a deal (to me).

Keyboard is definitely fine. I don't notice any issue with it when I travel and am forced to type on it.

But in general, I don't type on the Macbook when I travel. I usually have an ergo set up with a portable keyboard and touch pad and laptop stand.

Portable Apple Keyboard: http://a.co/d/4mKQqL1

Portable Apple Touchpad: http://a.co/d/acoXyuK

Portable Laptop Stand: http://a.co/d/2GSLqIa

did you use previous generations of macbook (before the butterfly keyboard was introduced) such as 2012? how does it compare?

I find it odd that you say it's fine if you're "forced to" use it, like your standard for a laptop keyboard isn't one that you should be able to use regularly (and you mention bringing your own). was wondering why you have this attitude...

I've had all generations of keyboards on multiple machines going back to the 1st gen Macbook Pro (early 2008).

I type just as fast on the butterfly mechanism as any other, a consistent 90wpm with no mistakes and scattershot up to about 130 wpm during programming. I've been at this speed for about 2 decades now, going all the way back to using a vintage model M keyboard, an AEII keyboard, etc.

I sometimes go back and forth between my newer MBPs and a 2014 I still have. It takes about an hour of adjustment to get my speed up when switching.

Thanks for this detailed info. (I type at similar speeds as you.) So when you use the butterfly keyboard at a cafe for example, is your initial feeling a bit of frustration (ah this again), since you did use the expression "forced to use it"...
I mean the keyboard isn’t amazing: the key travel is still tiny. But, it doesn’t have that top row replaced with a touch screen, which I would never look at (let alone touch) anyway.

EDIT: ahh, you were wondering about the size. I have small hands and type on it with ease. No complaints :)

I use an ergodox at work with mx-clears, it’s the most comfortable keyboard I’ve ever had.

The 12” macbook is the greatest laptop I’ve ever had. In fact, I actually prefer the v2 “paper thin” keyboard to the traditional one.

Not even with the keyboard, but especially with the keyboard. It's the best keyboard I have ever used. I love it.
It's the same keyboard (size/keyswitches) as the Macbook Pro.
It's funny how "the keyboard" actually identifies a number of issues, of which only one has been fixed:

1. The Memebar ("TouchBar") is thankfully gone.

2. If a single molecule of dust gets under a key, the key has a non-zero chance of no longer working.

3. The travel distance is basically non-existent, like typing on a squishier iPad.

Seeing them deal with 1 in at least some capacity gives me hope that they will deal with issue 2 by the third or fourth iteration of the keyboard. Unfortunately there is no chance of issue 3 being addressed.

4. If you're working in an office and someone has headphones on the lack of travel causes them to type angrily and loudly as if they were pretending to work in a sarcastic manner.

Can always tell when users of this laptop have headphones on just from the typing noise.

2 has been addressed by adding membrane under key caps and texturing bottom of key caps to push dust out.
i think you're making the author's point for him. it's an inferior machine in every way except for an inch of screen size. People are willing to pay extra for a marginally smaller computer, and apple is happy for that.
Size is a big feature though.
again, that's the whole point of the article - the MacBook/air/pro lineup is all about upsells, and they've managed to convert "smaller" into one of those upsells, where the 11" air used to be the cheapest model.
I get the article's point -- no arguments there. But calling the macbook "an inferior machine at a higher price" seems kind of a stretch IMO.
What do you gain with picking a 12-inch display over a 13.3-inch display?
As someone that loves his Macbook, I thought I'd give some context for my decision to buy the Macbook and why I'd still probably the Macbook if I had to choose again today.

It really comes down to two things

1. Weight

2. Tolerable Performance

The Macbook I have has a 1.4 GHz Core i7 and 16 GB of ram. Very rarely do I feel that I have issues with the daily things I need to do with the mac, which are some light programming/scripting/SQL and even hums when I have to do spreadsheets and manage multiple websites.

Given the performance is very good by real life standards, the weight is really the big issue to consider.

This is a considerable amount of difference between 2.03lbs and 2.75lbs. That's 35% lighter, that's a huge percentage when you have to drag your laptop around everywhere with you. I would gladly pay up to $1000 for that weight cut because of how much better my quality of life is with a smaller and more portable Macbook.

For me, I need to have my computer with me everywhere I go: dinner, hiking, vacations, etc. Having it do everything I want in a reasonable performance threshold and being 35% lighter, the Macbook is still by far the superior product.

It’s so tiny it’s practically the size of an iPad. If you travel a lot this can be a huge deal. I did a ton of development on one and it was great, but I had a beefier machine for visualizations and big compiles. Still, the tiny 12” is my go-to computer, small disk notwithstanding.

It also appears anecdotally that the smaller screen is more popular in Asia than in US/EU (for both Mac and Windows).

I used to have the 13" MacBook Air but am now on a 15" MBP. What I found is that whereas I'm reluctant to pull out my MBP on the couch or bed; I used to do that without hesitation with the MBA. There seems to be some threshold of weight/size that produces friction and makes me keep the MBP on a desk instead of using it like a (more) mobile device.

This is bizarre since the 2 machines are not immensely different in sizing, but it's something about the feel. Obviously this is highly subjective but this is making me consider a 12" MacBook to have as my personal, non-workhorse machine.

Is this a trick question? If you are in the market for a smaller than 13” computer then that’s that.
I have a GPD pocket I carry around, so Macs aren't the only one.
You are right, I should have specified that this only applies if what you want is a Mac.
My carry-on and camera bags have a pouch for this size laptop, originally the 11” MBA. The bags only cost a hundred each so I am not putting a large dollar value on a laptop that fits.

The smaller laptop is lighter, and when we have airlines aggressively enforcing 4kg limits on carry-on, every gram matters. I put my chargers in checked baggage, while my camera, lenses and laptop live in carry-on.

An extra 200g of laptop means leaving behind part of my camera. Not price sensitive about one-off purchase, but I am price sensitive about more frequent purchases!

more portability.
Also it's 2 lbs versus 2.7, that's a fair bit of difference.