[silman]

As someone who went from nothing -> Amateur Extra when i was 23 (25 now) from a random spurt of inspiration to learn ham radio and then promptly did nothing with the license i agree with this.

I don't know exactly what i was expecting from getting the license but i will say that i didn't expect it to basically just be dominated by old conservative men who don't appreciate younger folk stepping in on their air space. I have yet to actually speak to anyone because i don't feel like there is anything i would want to say.

Part of me was excited to do things like decode ISS transmission or send digital packets around the world; but i wanted to ease into the higher cost HF equipment with a simple and cheap as chips baofeng UHF/VHF radio (i know, its garbage but i like i said i wanted to ease into the hobby) and when i discovered there was nothing to do but listen to old men rant i just shelved the radio.

I considered getting the bitX40 but never ended up doing it because i don't own the house i rent and putting an antenna up seems like a lot of work for a place i might move from soon. Admittedly maybe my problem was getting a baofeng UHF/VHF instead of something that i can plug into my computer and do digital modes with. But no one was really around to help me decide what to choose or give me insight into what i may want to do with my new AE powers.

[mmaunder]

Guys, no one is forcing you to listen to that stuff. Get off the voice bands, get on digital and you'll have a blast.

Here's a fun talk at Defcon from Balint Seeber, a ham who focuses on security, to get you in the right headspace. I attended this and the group of 6 of us that hung out afterwards with Balint was some of the most impressive people I've met at Defcon. One had built a bug sniffer. Another was intercepting satellite comms over Iraq. And Balint had a prototype SDR board he shared with us. So much fun.

https://youtu.be/cHtHBqSZE4k

Yes, there is a community of rag chewers who use the voice bands, especially lower HF, to keep in touch with friends. That's a tiny part of the hobby and community.

[ChuckMcM]

Exactly this.

Too many people get funneled into this trap by the ARRL who understandably push "get on the air today!" type articles which haven't been updated since the 80's and have people getting HF radios and hunting for repeaters on the 2M band. And the grumpy old guys who are pissed off it isn't the 80's (or 70's or 50's, few seem to be nostalgic for the 60's) anymore.

In the digital radio space its a lot more open, and just being able to work with radio has become pretty easy these days. I've got a bunch of SDRs now, and I agree the ADALM-PLUTO ($100) is the most cost effective way to get a nice xmit and receive SDR. The RSP2 from SDRPlay is another one that is good for the low bands through 2G (its like $200) then the next step up is the HackRF-1 ($300) or LimeSDR ($300) or LimeSDR Mini ($170). Above that you start getting into the Ettus/National USRP radios ($3000 and up).

Small WHSPR (whisper) radios like the article mentions are inexpensive to build and fun to play with as well, not a lot of chatting but tagging beacons and getting tagged. Or putting lightweight radios in a balloon and flying it around the world (https://www.mchsarc.com/?page_id=13)

[StudentStuff]

Those grumpy guys pervade the web too, in some places when I talk about OpenWRT I'll get mobbed by people that view it as evil, linking it to dead forks of the early 2000s that were popular for blasting RF. These same people love to hate on the GPL, over squabbles that happened decades ago. Highlighting that GPLv3 fixes the permanent license revocation loophole of GPLv2 goes in one ear and out another with 'em.

When I point out the dozens of watts some HAMs are blasting in part of the 5Ghz band, these same asshats are all over that shit. It makes me want to have zero involvement with this toxic community, since many active members can't handle basic logic.

For now I'll stick to the ISM bands, Part 15 is good for many applications.

[sliken]

I've searched this space looking for a decent RX/TX SDR that does a few watts. It's surprisingly hard. Seems like the 5 watt $30 HTs (that are SDR based) are extremely common, but as soon as you add any flexibility it's $1000s.

[ChuckMcM]

Those two constraints are easily separated. Radio and separate power amplifier. You will find that a really wide band power amp is expensive so a lot of people will have two to five PAs and an RF switch to select between them

[franciscrick1]

See also http://www.picospace.net/, or http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/.

[vvanders]

I love the digital stuff, definitely an awesome space.

Another great group is Summits On The Air[1] which basically involves hauling a radio up to the highest peaks and seeing how many people you can contact from the top of the mountain.

It's something you can do with just a simple 5w VHF handheld(yay line-of-sight) and the group is really welcoming. Last weekend I was up at about 6k ft and making direct line of sight contacts over 100mi away on 5 watts.

[1] https://sota.org.uk/

[mmaunder]

Oooh that's a tough one. I haven't been in the market for a while, but even used gear like the Kenwood TS2000 which is now about 18 years old is still pricey. And a Yaesu FT817ND which is a low power HF radio comes in at around 800 bucks.

I really would like to hear from others, but I would look at getting an SDR that can handle HF frequencies down to at least 7Mhz if you want to have some serious DX fun.

I have a HackRF One, but it retails still at around $300 bucks. I have a feeling if you use the google and shop around, you may find a SDR and converter combo that'll get you down to 7Mhz with low power.

Then building your own antenna is trivial. Because you're using very low power, you can actually build a dipole antenna that doesn't even need a balun. I've used stealth antenna wire which is super slinky and nice to work with to create a low power antenna (in ham speak, we call low power 'QRP'). It's basically just coax that splits the core and shield into left and right branches. You use the stealth wire for the branches and you calculate the length based on frequency. So it's locked to a specific frequency like the 7Mhz band. But they're super effective as long as you string them in a tree. The whole kit can be bundled up into a backpack, taken for a hike and when you get to your destination, have a picnic, string up the antenna in a tree and make a few DX (long distance) QRP (low power) contacts on your laptop. Yeah, it's a geeky hobby. [insert joke about preparing for the end times]

But again, I'd love to hear from other hams on here re developments in low power low cost HF SDRs.

[scarhill]

I use the RS-HFIQ, a 5 watt 80-10 meter SDR transceiver[1]. If you don't want to mess with sound card configuration you can add the Pi SDR[2] which adds an Orange Pi and sound card to give you an ethernet-connected radio.

[1] - https://hobbypcb.com/rs-hfiq [2] - https://www.pi-sdr.net/pi-sdr/index.php/pi-sdr-projects/pi-s...

[silman]

So what lower-cost radio do you recommend to get started on non-voice bands? I see the bitX40 people made a new model called the µBITX. What bands and protocols will that open me up to? I also looked at the RTL-SDR but thats receive only and i'd like to do some transmitting and explore my options. Basically just looking for a cheap option that lets me explore the most bands/protocols.

[crankylinuxuser]

I'm not parent/GP...

I bought a ADALM-PLUTO from Arrow. $98 shipped. It's a SDR that goes from 325MHz-3.8GHz, and with a "hack" will go from 70 MHz to 6GHz. 7dBm (or 5 mW Tx).

You'll need amplifiers to go from 5mW to QRP (~1W). I did find one on Banggood for 1MHz-1GHz with up to 35dBm gain. I'll still need one for 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz, but that's a small price to pay for having nearly 6GHz of spectrum to read. ( https://www.banggood.com/1MHz-1000MHZ-35DB-3W-HF-VHF-UHF-FM-... )

[bitcoinmoney]

I also have an amateur license. How much is the cost to go to non voice band for starters??

[crankylinuxuser]

I'm not entirely sure I can competently answer that.

I know with my ADALM-PLUTO hardware, it can receive from 70MHz to 6GHz, but at only 5mW. So if you want to start Tx-ing, you'll need a low noise amplifier for the band you want to transmit. Also, the antennas are for 325MHz-3.8GHz and are anemic stubby 1dBi. You will want better antennas. Ideally, for the respective bands you want to do stuff with.

I'm still piecing my software together. Right now in open-source land, there's lots of individual decoders and some encoders. I'm having good luck with SDRangel for handling Tx as well - there's some weirdness with encoding data for Tx with the plugins. But that's just growing pains of this being new.

The other problem you'll have, if you just don't pony up kilobucks for "ham radio hardware", is that going from 7dBm (5mW) to 30dBm (1w) is going to be weirdly expensive. And then that only gets you to 'QRP'. You'll then need a second stage amp to go from 1w to higher power.

If you do EME digital modes, you're amping up from 5mW to 1.5KW . $$$$$$$$ lies here. But I'm sure if you talk in freenode IRC in ##hamradio , there are EME hams there.

So to better answer your question, rather than give you a bunch of options, here's a general idea of cost breakdown:

Cost = laptop + ADALM-PLUTO (or relevant SDR for HF) + 30 dBi amplifier for band you want + antennas for band you want

My laptop is $500 and is Dell precision m4800. 4 cores/8 threads, 32GB ram. $500 from ebay. ADALM-PLUTO is $98 shipped from Arrow. I bought 2 1.35GHz-9.5GHz antennas for $13 each from Banggood. I'm looking for a 7dBm->20dBm 2.4GHz amplifier That would bring me up to 100mW output. I also bought a random assortment of SMA connectors for $12

That would leave my current total at $136 for the wireless hardware, or $636 if you want a dedicated laptop. RasPis won't work with SDRangel - it eats CPU for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

https://www.banggood.com/1_35GHz-9_5GHz-UWB-Ultra-Wideband-L...

https://www.banggood.com/18pcs-1_2G-5_8G-FPV-Telemetry-Anten...

[unoti]

> I have yet to actually speak to anyone because i don't feel like there is anything i would want to say.

A lot of this probably has to do with where you are, or more specifically, where the people you're hearing are. I first got into ham in North Carolina. The people there were talking about hunting and meat preservation techniques.

Then I moved to San Francisco, and later to Seattle. The people in these places are more talking about things like high bandwidth microwave and forming mesh networks, making reliable contacts with man-portable rigs, antenna design, raspberry pi vs adruino, sending video from remote controlled aircraft, and dozens of other things that fascinate me.

It's not an age thing, it's an interest thing. And the types of things people are interested in is strongly correlated to their geographic area.

[themodelplumber]

> Part of me was excited [...] decode ISS transmission [...] cheap as chips baofeng

You can totally do this without spending more money! I've got my first award hanging on my wall for using my cheap as chips Baofeng to do this very thing. The award itself is really cool and has "INTERCOSMOS" across the top in English and Russian, along with an illustration of the Russian ISS module(s). The decoder I used was the free Robot36 app on my Android phone. I believe there is another SSTV event coming up on October 27.

If you don't want to speak to anyone, this kind of activity is awesome. Turn squelch off, TDR off, dial in 145.800 and hold your Baofeng next to your phone running Robot36. You can easily monitor the ham sats and other sats too; heck you can just sit on a park bench and do this really easily. If you want portable sat & ISS tracking, there are apps that do this really well.

Since I got my extra last year, I've volunteered at three events (1 ultramarathon and 2 public safety drills at local hospitals), joined a club I like (TheGuildGlobal.org), and talked to people all over the world. I haven't set up the outdoor antenna for my donated Swan HF rig yet (thanks to some super nice local hams) but Echolink is actually really fun; I didn't believe it until I tried it. And how else can you talk to someone in Japan and someone in Scotland within minutes of each other. I heard the guy in Japan dropping his jaw open when he found out I lived in the same city in Japan where his daughter lives, so you never know. (A day after that I talked with a guy up in Seattle, where I'm originally from, about the Green River Killer for a few minutes. Fun stuff. Haha.)

I haven't had a single old man conversation that I felt I couldn't politely and immediately end. Heck, I've had old timers cut out on me with "welp, I just arrived at my destination, have a nice day, K1ABC clear." It's that simple and normal.

Anyway, I hope you'll give it another chance. Find the stuff you like and build on that. Find people you don't mind talking to, and talk to them. Find nets you like and chime in. There are some really awesome people out there who aren't political and who would love to talk just about anything you see here on HN. I know because I'm one of 'em. Hope to hear you on the air sometime --KM6NHH

[silman]

I definitely will try to do that SSTV event.

I don't think i "get" echolink. You hook up your radio to your computer (somehow? I don't know how i'd do this with a baofeng) and talk into it and then it uses the internet to send that across the world to other peoples radios who are also connected to their computer? It just feels like a discord voice chat with radios as the input/output device. Am i missing something?

[themodelplumber]

It's true, you really have to try Echolink to "get" it. I have heard this many times. IMO its curb appeal is low but it is a lot of fun.

I have it on my phone, and I also have the (Windows) app running in Wine on my Linux desktop. You can just use your built-in mic or a regular sound card mic. I have never even used my HT with it. But you can, if you want.

And that opens up one of the really neat aspects: You can end up talking to someone through their repeater. Just about every time I talk to somebody, they're on their HT out in the field somewhere and they have no idea that I just came in through Echolink. You might catch someone who's out on a hike, and get some pictures or a video on Twitter later. Or talk to someone in their shop.

There are also nets that you can listen into on Echolink. Check out dodropin.org to get started.

Finally, no non-hams are allowed to register. This is a huge pro if you're comparing with e.g. Skype or Chat Roulette. The sign-up process is pretty legit, a human is reviewing your license. So there's this automatic level of politeness and protocol which is refreshing. On Discord, you just have no idea, especially if you're chatting with random people. On Echolink, their account status is at stake and it's kind of like a big closed group.

Related to this, I like that TheGuildGlobal.org are branching out, not only onto SIP but also to platforms like Zello. The ham world actually brings a high level of discourse to communications, even if you figure in the occasional grump. There is always another mode to try.

[ip26]

If you're just using your handset as a hand mic for what is basically Skype, yeah that's not all that exciting.

As far as I understand, VoIP links for radio primarily adds a tool in the toolbox for expanding & linking repeater networks. Instead of beaming your local repeater over the mountain range to get to the next village, you can link two repeaters over VoIP.

[ip26]

The SSTV stuff was really cool, especially how well it meshed with a cell phone aka pocket computer. There are some real applications too, unfortunately it's kind of techy for ordinary people.

[setquk]

QSX is coming soon. https://www.qrp-labs.com/qsx.html

Just google like any other technology. Answers are all out there. I never went to any amateur radio clubs. I paid up to do my exams, bought a radio and just wobbled into the bar like a drunk.

Also you don’t have to talk to someone past exchanging RST etc. If they start going off on one just tune away.

[silman]

can you explain how QSX is different from the other SDRs being mentioned (ADALM-PLUTO, HackRF One, etc)? Is it just more transmit power than those other SDRs? I feel like i'm missing something.

[ianburrell]

It is a SDR-based HF transceiver instead of wide-band SDR. SDR is implementation detail and extra feature. Most SDRs are receive only, and the ones that can transmit, like ones you listed, are limited in power.

The other difference is interface. The QSX, and other SDR-based transceivers, work like other regular transceivers. They have USB port for computer control and sound card output. Some newer radios provide I-Q input and output which can be used for more advanced modes. But the bandwidth is limited compared to the SDRs which can monitor an entire band.

[silman]

So would you recommend the QSX as a good way for a beginner to get to explore all the different bands/modes? Do you think this is a good replacement to - say - a hackRF? Or is the hackRF better for specific use cases like debugging because it has wide bandwidth?

[setquk]

When you're doing RF stuff you're usually really only interested in single signal reception and usability. To learn about the various modes this will be way better than an SDR.

The SDR sure has utility but that comes at a compromise. I've done some professional RF stuff in the past and 99% of the problems are solved with very simple and way more precise gear compared to an SDR.

Have a look at http://websdr.org and have a play around with SDRs and then go look at a video for a Yaesu or Icom "rig" and see the difference in the usability. The QSX is more the Yaesu or Icom end of things.

[silman]

Well i'm sold, can't wait for the QSX to be released so I can really start using my AE license! Thanks!

[setquk]

One's a transceiver. One's an SDR. The first is way more human oriented and focused on utility.

[resters]

> I have yet to actually speak to anyone because i don't feel like there is anything i would want to say.

That's true for many people. You don't need to use it to make a statement or to express your individuality, you can just participate in contests, enjoy propagation, etc.

[ip26]

Yes, but if you don't have anything to say and you don't want to hear the things other people are saying, then what are you doing? Thus the remark that the radio was shelved.

[kw71]

DX and contesting is still a sport and for these people many contacts end after QRZ and signal report

[rmason]

In certain places like 80 meters it has always been this way. There was a rather famous individual on 80M AM that used to call CQ by saying no lids, no kids, no space cadets. A lot of young ham in the sixties like to really get in this old boys face. I wasn't one of them and found out he was a pretty intelligent fellow, he just didn't had a low tolerance for fools.

[Stratoscope]

For the curious...

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/

[someone454]

Sounds kind of like the mirror opposite of HN