[fi358]

Sometimes in Finland you see people from countries like USA talking with each other endlessly and often quite loudly. Many of us Finns find it annoying as it is against local customs (it resembles situation where somebody comes too close to my personal space). This constant chit-chat prevents me concentrating on my own thoughts. I wouldn't mind if they would talk about some important things or keep their chit-chat short, but I don't want to be exposed to this kind of noise about trivial things for hours.

[bluetomcat]

The constant chit-chat is at the surface of this phenomenon, it's the general hyperactivity of Americans that strikes me as an eastern European. Always moving around restlessly while holding a drink, overacting and commenting after any kind of trivial situation around them, something that most people would not care about at all.

[unstuckdev]

I call those people annoying. I was born and raised and have lived my entire life in the US. I'm quiet, still, and prefer the same in the people around me. You can't assess over 300 million people by the few who can afford to travel.

[robocat]

One issue is that we generally notice the loud obnoxious stereotype, and there are enough Americans that fit that mould.

And perhaps you are discounting that many people make their own judgement call based on the interactions they have had with Americans.

I am not sure it has much to do with tourists per se. On the gripping hand, I am in Palma de Mallorca at the moment, which many Europeans travel to for the beach and party life: there are some definite stereotypes for the Poms and the Germans!

Every visitor faces bigotry, some fair, some unfair.

American's can get plenty of positive reaction too. At least most people have some idea about your country and customs from watching movies: try coming from a third world nation...

[stevekemp]

You're not wrong.

But also there are a lot of Finns who seem to enjoy having loud phone-calls of their own, whilst sat next to you on the tram/bus. I find that more annoying to be honest.

[nyc111]

It looks like I would love to live in Finland! I'm always annoyed by passengers in the bus talking loudly while I try to read my book. This is very common. Commuters are very noisy in Turkey. Also I wonder if in Finland they announce stations in public transportation. Like "next station is blah blah..." Here in Turkey in big cities they even announce stations in Turkish and in English! So annoying.

[matthewmacleod]

Announcements are super important for people with visual difficulties, though.

I agree that there can often be far too much noise in public spaces, but that’s probably the wrong target to pick!

[nyc111]

This may be true. But it does not make sense to violate personal spaces of millions of people for the possibility that one blind person will be in the train. I never encountered a blind commuter but I'm sure they exist. In my country people would be extremely helpful and would tell them their stop and help them get out. To me clean and quiet public transportation is a sign of civilization.

[lolc]

People with disabilities prefer not to rely on other people if they can avoid it. Just like everybody else.

It's possible to train your consciousness to some degree and ignore noise. I find the times when I'm bothered by announcements to be the times I'm fuzzy anyway. I carry big headphones for such occasions :-)

[reitanqild]

> But it does not make sense to violate personal spaces of millions of people for the possibility that one blind person will be in the train.

What do you mean by "Violate personal spaces"?

> I never encountered a blind commuter but I'm sure they exist.

One reason might be if bo effort wss made to make public transport easy to use for people with disabilities.

[nyc111]

I was referring to @fi358's comment:

> Many of us Finns find it annoying as it is against

> local customs (it resembles situation where somebody

> comes too close to my personal space). This constant

> chit-chat prevents me concentrating on my own thoughts.

> I wouldn't mind if they would talk about some important

> things or keep their chit-chat short, but I don't want

> to be exposed to this kind of noise about trivial

> things for hours.

Like fi358, I consider subjecting someone to unwanted noise to be same as violating their personal space by coming too close to them. To me recorded announcements that repeat and repeat mindlessly the same thing over and over again and serve no purpose is a violation of personal space.

> to make public transport easy to use for people with disabilities...

You are right of course. But someone in wheelchair and a blind person have different requirements. Where I live most busses can accommodate people with wheelchair. People also are extremely helpful to blind people. I see ordinary people helping blinds cross the street. So if a blind person boards a bus all he has to do is to tell his stop to the driver or to a passenger near him.

[reitanqild]

Ok, mostly makes sense to me.

This part however still sticks out IMO:

> Like fi358, I consider subjecting someone to unwanted noise to be same as violating their personal space by coming too close to them.

I'd say there's a fairly huge difference between making noise outside my house (or worse inside my house) and making automatic announcements on a bus.

When traveling in the public we have to live with other people.

[nyc111]

By the way, I see this topic as part of the fundamental human condition, that is, the neverending strife between the individual and his master, the legal organism.

Governments and their branches are legal organisms. These organisms exploit the individual. The individual has no power against his master.

In this case, the individual is the customer but he has no say about the quality of his commute. The legal organism in charge of transportation does not bother to ask its customers if they want recorded announcements of stations. The majority of the customers, probably over %90, take the same train everyday and know their stop by heart. They would get off in the right station in their sleep. They don’t need to be told where to get off. If the legal organism asked its customers if they want announcements, the majority would say "don't talk to us. Leave us alone. Let us read a book, sleep or daydream. Just don't bother us and don't try to be nice to us. Don’t make condescending announcements. Just shut up. Give us a clean, safe and fast ride and get out of the way.” But the master never asks its subjects and never listens. The individual accepts whatever the legal organism gives to him.

You may think that accepting the violation of your personal space by recorded announcements without protest is a trivial issue. But people who accept voluntarily trivial harrassments by their master will voluntarily accept big harassments. Like when the same organism will want to take his naked pictures while crossing its borders.